The Best Logique Evidence of God Existence

[vulcanlogician]

It is impossible for a matter to exist from nothing

[Citation Needed]

but god yes because he is not made from matter.

[Citation Needed] (Please not the Quran! lol)

****

Welcome to the forums, Nogba. I sense that you are genuine (ie. not a troll) in your intentions, but the arguments you have posted here (and on the other forum) are a tad weak. Please consider that most of us have thought about the things you are saying and didn't consider them reason enough to believe in God.

Some atheists here (such as myself) find the principle of sufficient reason compelling, but nonetheless reject the proposition that god belief necessarily follows from it. Consider this bit of logic:

1) Everything that begins to exist has a cause.
2) The universe is not an infinitely regressive series of causes.
Therefore, the first cause must be self-caused.

Notice how there is no mention of God there. The thing that is self-caused may not be a divine entity. In the above logical expression, the PSR remains intact, but God is missing from the conclusion.

Just to be clear, your god may exist. But the fact that an uncaused cause exists somewhere in the causal chain does not prove that your god exists.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

At work.

Hello Nogba!

There's also the point/issue that we have existing example of things in the 'Real World' having both 'No cause' or being 'Uncaused' which don't have the properties of any dieties behind said events.

Cheers.

Not because they didn't find that they don't have a cause. It is impossible for a matter to exist from nothing but god yes because he is not made from matter.

Now, now, we'll have none of that backpedaling. You originally claimed that 'every thing that existes must have a reason that made him come to existence right ?'.  Now, you're trying to weasel out and claim that only things made of matter qualify.  What about gravity?  It isn't made of matter.  Thoughts, emotions, attractive forces, repulsive forces - none of these are 'made of matter' (although they are dependent on it).  So, none of these things require a cause?

You're being a very naughty Muslim.

Boru

[vulcanlogician]

"God" is an an ancient word that means "I don't know". "We'll stone you to death if you don't think like the rest of the tribe."

FTFY.

[Cod]

You're being a very naughty Muslim.

Boru

That's the best thing I've read all day

[Nogba]

If everything needs a reason to exist, then you are locked into a preceding cause for God to exist (in other words, God was created by something else).  This gets you into an infinite regression of causes, which is a messy business at best, and doesn't help your argument.

Since, by your argument, God can't exist without a prior cause and you reject the possibility of such a cause, then God can't exist.  Since God can't exist and the universe clearly does, then you have managed to neatly disprove the existence of God.

Well done!!


Boru

I Said that if there is no being that doesn't have a cause of existing then we won't be here. you have put an effort to understand that it is so important
It is absolut must the some being doesn't have a cause for existing pay attention.

How God exist then ?

The answer is That god created the exist term it self, he created the exist term and he applied it just to his creation

i know this is mind boggling

but if you take your time it is going to be clear after.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

If everything needs a reason to exist, then you are locked into a preceding cause for God to exist (in other words, God was created by something else).  This gets you into an infinite regression of causes, which is a messy business at best, and doesn't help your argument.

Since, by your argument, God can't exist without a prior cause and you reject the possibility of such a cause, then God can't exist.  Since God can't exist and the universe clearly does, then you have managed to neatly disprove the existence of God.

Well done!!


Boru

I Said that if there is no being that doesn't have a cause of existing then we won't be here. you have put an effort to understand that it is so important
It is absolut must the some being doesn't have a cause for existing pay attention.

How God exist then ?

The answer is That god created the exist term it self, he created the exist term and he applied it just to his creation

i know this is mind boggling

but if you take your time it is going to be clear after.

If God is self-caused (I think that's what you're saying, correct me if I'm wrong), then there is no bar to the universe being self-caused.  You aren't allowed to ad hoc your way out of this one.

Boru

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

You're being a very naughty Muslim.

Boru

That's the best thing I've read all day

Ta, Cod.  'One performs according to one's gifts.' (Eleanor of Aquitaine)

Boru

[Nogba]

It is impossible for a matter to exist from nothing

[Citation Needed]

but god yes because he is not made from matter.

[Citation Needed] (Please not the Quran! lol)

The matter is impossible to exist from nothing because matter is from energy and Second law of thermodynamics says that the energy is decreasing over time
and some day will be consumed. how can it then last eternity that was behind us
and the god chouldn't be made from matter because of that to and because he is the first cause.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

[Citation Needed]


[Citation Needed] (Please not the Quran! lol)

The matter is impossible to exist from nothing because matter is from energy and Second law of thermodynamics says that the energy is decreasing over time
and some day will be consumed. how can it then last eternity that was behind us
and the god chouldn't be made from matter because of that to and because he is the first cause.

Those circular arguments are going to make you dizzy.

Boru

[Fake Messiah]

The matter is impossible to exist from nothing because matter is from energy and Second law of thermodynamics says that the energy is decreasing over time
and some day will be consumed. how can it then last eternity that was behind us
and the god chouldn't be made from matter because of that to and because he is the first cause.

But what about all those theoretical models done by scientists that have been published suggesting mechanisms by which our current universe appeared from a preexisting one, for example, by a process called quantum tunneling or so-called quantum fluctuations?

Should we burn those scientists and their formulas?

In the book The Comprehensible Cosmos, scientist presented a specific scenario for the purely natural origin of the universe, worked out mathematically at a level accessible to anyone with an undergraduate mathematics or physics background.
This was based on the no boundary model of James Hartle and Stephen Hawking.
In that model, the universe has no beginning or end in space or time. In the scenario presented there, our universe is described as having "tunneled" through the chaos at the Planck time from a prior universe that existed for all previous time.