Open borders

[onlinebiker]

For myself, I'm thinking of joining the Radical Moderate movement.

Boru

Not to be confused with the Moderately Radicals....

Or the Judean People's Front...

WANKERS!

[EgoDeath]

I'm not susceptible to any white supremacist rebranding because I'm not a racist. But oh! Thats how they want you to think! Its a bigger conspiracy than 9/11.

---

Im starting to realize how pointless it is to have political discussions on this board is. You guys hear what you want to hear and mold it into your own pre-conceived notions. You say youre a liberal? i dont believe you!

Im pro choice
An LGBTQ ally
Support universal healthcare
Believe drugs should be decriminalized, if not legalized
Believe we spend way too much on the military
Believe in strict gun control
Am appalled that someone like Trump is president
Believe we need to take immediate action on climate change
So on and so forth...

But oh! This is all just part of alt-right rebranding.

Jesus. I feel like im talking to flatearthers

[Little lunch]

Well, you know how those people fall for all that white supremacy crap on the far right?
These guys have just fallen for some of the crap on the far left.
They are so well versed in it that they know you better than you know yourself.
And don't forget, it's only cause you're not smart enough to figure it out yourself.

[The Grand Nudger]

-and again, your liberal cred does not make you immune- it makes you their target audience.

There’s no point in bickering with me about whether or not you’re a liberal.

Or, as per ll whether or not you know yourself, or are smart, or any of that shit.

Propaganda works. It doesn’t just work on dummies who don’t know themselves. It doesn’t stop working on account of liberal.

You ran off a list of things, up there. Well, there’s a contemporary white supremacist angle for all of that. They’re not the nazis out of the history books.

“I’m all of this, how could I possibly agree with them on anything or find myself in the strange position of unwittingly repeating their rhetoric!”

Well, start with the link.

---

In the meantime, we can explore.

Social justice, in some form or another, is central to the dem platform. There are varying levels of commitment to it, obvs.

Contemporary white supremacy asserts itself with the language of social justice. As a minority’s group. As a group who’s speech is suppressed. As a group being targeted by radical extremists. As a group being unfairly maligned. As a group discriminated against. As a group shamed, shunned, and generally on the shit end of bias. As a group surrounded by irrational emotionally unhinged would be or actual oppressors.

Precisely because of people’s liberal values, some portion of this pulls at liberal heartstrings. The entire anti-sjw pc phenomena and language originated with white supremacist rhetoric back in the 90’s. Itself an outgrowth if civil rights era discontent.

It didn’t stay on the right, however. It made the cross. All these years later we still don’t have the race wars and the thought police, but we do have the concentration camps and domestic terrorism.

The Overton window, here, shifted for the left and the right over that span, and what was once rightly discarded as the lunatic raving of fringe white nationalists on the right has become part of the negotiation between the contemporary right and left. Turned into an industry, even. Spun off free speech appeals.

It’s gone from the cross burning to the living room. In any town, liberal or conservative, in any home, liberal or conservative.

In the same span of time that broad public acceptance of that rhetoric has increased across the board, a thing called racial apathy has increased pointedly on the left.

[EgoDeath]

-and again, your liberal cred does not make you immune- it makes you their target audience.

There’s no point in bickering with me about whether or not you’re a liberal.

Or, as per ll whether or not you know yourself, or are smart, or any of that shit.

Propaganda works. It doesn’t just work on dummies who don’t know themselves. It doesn’t stop working on account of liberal.

You ran off a list of things, up there. Well, there’s a contemporary white supremacist angle for all of that. They’re not the nazis out of the history books.

“I’m all of this, how could I possibly agree with them on anything or find myself in the strange position of unwittingly repeating their rhetoric!”

Well, start with the link.

---

In the meantime, we can explore.

Social justice, in some form or another, is central to the dem platform. There are varying levels of commitment to it, obvs.

Contemporary white supremacy asserts itself with the language of social justice. As a minority’s group. As a group who’s speech is suppressed. As a group being targeted by radical extremists. As a group being unfairly maligned. As a group discriminated against. As a group shamed, shunned, and generally on the shit end of bias. As a group surrounded by irrational emotionally unhinged would be or actual oppressors.

Precisely because of people’s liberal values, some portion of this pulls at liberal heartstrings. The entire anti-sjw pc phenomena and language originated with white supremacist rhetoric back in the 90’s. Itself an outgrowth if civil rights era discontent.

It didn’t stay on the right, however. It made the cross. All these years later we still don’t have the race wars and the thought police, but we do have the concentration camps and domestic terrorism.

The Overton window, here, shifted for the left and the right over that span, and what was once rightly discarded as the lunatic raving of fringe white nationalists on the right has become part of the negotiation between the contemporary right and left. Turned into an industry, even. Spun off free speech appeals.

It’s gone from the cross burning to the living room. In any town, liberal or conservative, in any home, liberal or conservative.

In the same span of time that broad public acceptance of that rhetoric has increased across the board, a thing called racial apathy has increased pointedly on the left.

And what I've told you time and time again is I'm aware of such ruses and I don't buy into it. If you choose not to believe me, cool. Are you the only person not susceptible to this, but everyone else is?

I can recognize far left madness for what it is and not be alt-right. Just like I can recognize far-right madness and not have to be a pink-haired member of antifa. If a white supremacist likes Starbucks coffee and I like Starbucks coffee, does that somehow make me susceptible to the rest of his or her opinions and being persuaded to see things their way? No. The difference is, the only truly conservative opinion you can say I hold is on guns. And even then I fall wau short of the mark of having a conservative opinion. I actually want gun control. Conservatives don't.

You seem to live in a very black and white world. Nuance is not a weapon of the alt-right, it's a function of common sense. We have to allow nuanced opinions if we want honest discussion. Someone does not have to check every single box that you so see fit in order to be immune to the alt-right nonsense. You don't seem to get this.

That I incorrectly used the term open border does not mean I'm regurgitating alt-right rhetoric. You never even cared to ask what it is that I actually believe.

This sort of witch-hunting bullshit that the left (and right) does is exactly why we have Trump as President right now.

I honestly feel sorry for you. You live in a very dim world. The reality is, the vast majority of people are not racial supremacists and never will be. Do people hold damaging opinions on race and have prejudicial thoughts? Sure, and those should be challenged when they're seen and exposed for the nonsensical thoughts that they are.

But throwing the alt-right sticker on anyone who has an opinion that may be similar to what some conservatives think is no way to interact with other humans and is no way to start, hold or end a political conversation. You must be fun at parties.

The difference is, I see through your bullshit. If other people here don't... Not my problem. Do you think I actually care what some asshole in Kentucky, or anywhere else thinks about my political views? The only reason I'm even still part of this conversation is that so maybe you might realize that, politically, I'm probably much more on your side than you think.

As far as ideas, I'm very much aligned with Libertarian Socialism. Functionally, I'd consider myself a Democrat. I'm not this boogey man you try to make me out to be. Nor am I susceptible to the ruses of the real boogey men and women. You can't be scammed by the Indian call centers when you know Microsoft doesn't call you when your computer has a virus.

[The Grand Nudger]

Fine, you’re immune. It doesn’t work on you, It’s just an incredible coincidence that you share parts of your POV with the alt right. Even the novel fact free parts manufactured entirely by the alt right. It’s never been pointed out to you before, or on any other context or subject than this thread.

There’s just no way that the politics of the last few decades could have seeped into your politics.



: shrugs :

Or, I keep telling you that it doesn’t have anything to do with conservative opinions. Start with the link.

[LadyForCamus]

To put an even finer point on it.  I’m glad that you can recognize disgrace when you see it, but that’s an awfully low bar in this case, and even so you continue to repeat alt right talking points.

Not even at an open border can people move without restriction or documentation.  Open borders, in point of fact, make it easier to enforce restrictions and documentation.

What the hell constitutes an open border anyway? I honestly have no idea. Teach me; it’s midnight and I’m too tired to google it. 😛

[The Grand Nudger]

It refers loosely to a ton of ideas about how people and goods can move freely across a border.

Live in one country, work in another - or just drive through to engage in some tourism and commerce. That sort of thing.

[Little lunch]

So I read a few pieces by Berbrier and to be honest, it sounds like a big conspiracy theory.
It's not science, it's opinion, based on the work of other people's opinions.
Why is this not considered propaganda?
The guy's just a teacher, whom half of his students consider to be rude and that he conducts a shitty class.
The other half love him.

If I'm on the left, where do I go to get information about things that the left are doing and shouldn't be doing?
Am I going to get it on left sites? Of course not.
It wasn't until I explored the right that I realised how much the left lies.
I've seen proof of it over and over again.
Of course, I already knew that the right lies, so I only glean information that is irreputable.
How can you be unsusceptible to propaganda if you're not checking out both sides?
Calling people out for having viewed information from the other side and then calling them names is effectively bullying, to make them stay on this side of the fence.
And the fact that it's being done in little gangs raises the bully factor.

[The Grand Nudger]

It isn’t considered propaganda, because it can be verified and studied. Contemporary white supremacist rhetoric is no more a hoax than white supremacy is, lol.

It’s not a left/right thing, that’s just what people are familiar with. That’s why I keep getting “but I’m a leftist” and “ I just have conservative opinions.

Lol, no...the rhetoric of white supremacy has been mainstreamed on the right and the left. It’s hardly bullying to call out white supremacist rhetoric, for white supremacist rhetoric.

It is white supremacist rhetoric, however, to insist as much. That little chestnut is a liberal wedge. A very effective one. Concern trolling that became just as much a part of the left as it is the right, in the two factions negotiation over the borders of reality.

In mere reality, there are only two cogent responses to being confronted with this. One is to say “huh, no shit, I didn’t know that’s where it come from, but I agree”. The other, to reassess one’s sources and credulity. A person can find that they still agree, after that, ofc.

The short version of all of this, is that at the end of the day....a person either agrees with white supremacist rhetoric or they don’t. All this “it’s propaganda” “conspiracy theories” “ bullying” “the left lies”......

Nah, that’s hand wringing. That’s a person trying to do their own negotiating over the reality of their acceptance or agreement with white supremacist rhetoric.