Open borders

[Mister Agenda]

What do you think ice is doing with the people they snatch in those raids? Loading them into catapults and tossing them over the rio grande?

Do you believe, for that matter, that they’re limiting themselves to the bad hombres ( even under their novel definition of what that means)?

You simply won't focus on what I said.
These are people who have been given hearings and been denied. Deportation warrants are issued.

I'm pretty sure it was deportation orders that were issued, not deportation warrants. Not sure that deportation warrants are even a thing. And a warrant is what you need to break into someone's home and search the place, if I'm not mistaken.

A deportation order is given to the immigrant, who has a certain amount of time to make arrangements, or appeal it to get a stay. If it is ignored, then the immigrant is considered a fugitive and the fugitive branch of ICE can arrest. I would think that if that was the course of events, the ICE agents would be issued warrants granting them the authority they need to undertake the arrest, including entering the immigrant's home.

There are some claims that ICE is doing this without warrants. That suggests they are not following the procedure that is supposed to be followed. Are they only going after fugitives who have ignored their deportation orders? If so, why not issue warrants if they're going to need to force their way into someone's home?

[LadyForCamus]

You simply won't focus on what I said.
These are people who have been given hearings and been denied. Deportation warrants are issued.

I'm pretty sure it was deportation orders that were issued, not deportation warrants. Not sure that deportation warrants are even a thing. And a warrant is what you need to break into someone's home and search the place, if I'm not mistaken.

A deportation order is given to the immigrant, who has a certain amount of time to make arrangements, or appeal it to get a stay. If it is ignored, then the immigrant is considered a fugitive and the fugitive branch of ICE can arrest. I would think that if that was the course of events, the ICE agents would be issued warrants granting them the authority they need to undertake the arrest, including entering the immigrant's home.

There are some claims that ICE is doing this without warrants. That suggests they are not following the procedure that is supposed to be followed. Are they only going after fugitives who have ignored their deportation orders? If so, why not issue warrants if they're going to need to force their way into someone's home?

Thank you, MA.

[onlinebiker]

You simply won't focus on what I said.
These are people who have been given hearings and been denied. Deportation warrants are issued.

I'm pretty sure it was deportation orders that were issued, not deportation warrants. Not sure that deportation warrants are even a thing. And a warrant is what you need to break into someone's home and search the place, if I'm not mistaken.

A deportation order is given to the immigrant, who has a certain amount of time to make arrangements, or appeal it to get a stay. If it is ignored, then the immigrant is considered a fugitive and the fugitive branch of ICE can arrest. I would think that if that was the course of events, the ICE agents would be issued warrants granting them the authority they need to undertake the arrest, including entering the immigrant's home.

There are some claims that ICE is doing this without warrants. That suggests they are not following the procedure that is supposed to be followed. Are they only going after fugitives who have ignored their deportation orders? If so, why not issue warrants if they're going to need to force their way into someone's home?

You are correct-  I misspoke. The reporting I heard on NPR did say orders - not warrant.

Still the point holds - these people had their hearings - and were denied.

They should be deported.

Otherwise - what's the point?

[The Grand Nudger]

The point of borders are to assert territorial claims on resources. As has already been explained to you.

They aren’t rendered pointless just because we might not want to waste resources hunting down brown people, and if we wanted to hunt down the brown people......were going about it in a counterproductive manner.

Another poster has injected some reality into just what those hearings are and how they go down, additionally.

Do you have any comments on any of this?

[onlinebiker]

The point of borders are to assert territorial claims on resources.  As has already been explained to you.

They aren’t rendered pointless just because we might not want to waste resources hunting down brown people, and if we wanted to hunt down the brown people......were going about it in a counterproductive manner.

And you still don't answer the question. You just (in the words of Tom and Ray Magliozzi) declarifying the issue.

Why hold hearings if you are not willing to enforce the results?


Do I need to type slower, or draw a picture?

[The Grand Nudger]

Why hold hearings if the attendee can’t understand what’s being said or doesn’t even know they’re scheduled? Why hold hearings if three year olds represent themselves? Why hold hearings if the purpose from the get go is blanket rejection?

Why indeed.

(I could answer the question for you very accurately, but I doubt that you’ll find that answer in any way helpful to your goal of making assholes squirm)

---

-and, ultimately, whether you ever find a satisfying answer to that question, if we stopped that nonsense....that still wouldn’t mean that we had to open the borders.

[onlinebiker]

Why hold hearings if the attendee can’t understand what’s being said or doesn’t even know they’re scheduled?  Why hold hearings if three year olds represent themselves?  Why hold hearings if the purpose from the get go is blanket rejection?  

Why indeed.

(I could answer the question for you very accurately, but I doubt that you’ll find that answer in any way helpful to your goal of making assholes squirm)

---

-and, ultimately, whether you ever find a satisfying answer to that question, if we stopped that nonsense....that still wouldn’t mean that we had to open the borders.

Here's what I'm hearing..

You don't want open borders.

You don't want law enforcement.

You want to do immigration on the honor system....


Yeah... Sure.


That'll work.

[The Grand Nudger]

No comments at all then? LOL, silly troll.

[Cecelia]

The main issue is: Why does this matter so much to some people? Everyone keeps worrying about these undocumented immigrants, but why?

Let's examine the common reasons we hear:

#1. Jobs. This one can be thrown out quickly, though. Because people don't want to tackle the root cause of jobs going to undocumented immigrants. That is, employers. "Open Borders" or "Closed Borders" does not address this cause at all. In fact, it distracts from the issue entirely. So it can't be 'jobs'. People might claim it, but that doesn't make it so. if they were really concerned about all those jobs, they'd be against immigration from non-latinx countries as well. But they aren't. They're more than happy to accept Slovenian Models with enough plastic surgery to make Joan Rivers say "Enough already!"

#2. Taxes. This one can be thrown out too. For multiple reasons. #1. Because most undocumented immigrants do pay taxes, and #2. Making the path to citizenship much easier for them would lead to them... paying taxes.

#3. Limited Resources. Except, America is the land of plenty and waste. We've got more than enough resources. "But if we accept EVERYONE then we'll not have enough!" Which is blatantly false. America isn't 'full' by any means. And again, even if it were true, none of the same people have problems with European Immigrants. I'm seeing a pattern emerge here.

#4. They're dangerous! This is also blatantly false, and racist. Undocumented Immigrants commit violent crimes at lower rates than natural born citizens. If anything, we should advocate to let in those who haven't committed any violent crimes while working to help those who don't.

#5. DRUGS! Which would be a totally moot point if we decriminalized them in the first place. Which we should have, long ago.

#6. Terrorism. Which we have a lot of from the right wing in this country, but we won't label it terorrism. Not to mention more terrorists come in from Canada than south of the border in the first place.

#7. It's THE LAW! And this is ultimately what people fall back on. But WHY is it the law? What purpose does it serve? We have a lot of laws -- some just, and some unjust. Are we treating people fairly? Nobody who shouts about undocumented immigrants seems to care about this. And why is that? Are they racist, or have they simply allowed society's racism to convince them that brown people = scary?

Nobody who's concerned about undocumented immigrants EVER addresses what they claim their 'root' cause is. Instead they fear monger with terms like "OPEN BORDERS!" It's a scare tactic designed to distract from the real reason. Which is racism. Now, not every person concerned about undocumented immigrants are racist (Though I'd argue if you are okay with concentration camps because "What else are we supposed to do?!", I'd say that if the shoe fits, wear it). Many have just been suckered in by the racists, and continue using their language because society has been seeped in it for so long.

The truth is, most undocumented immigrants came to America seeking a better life for themselves, much like most of the people coming to America 200 years ago did. America is supposed to be the land of opportunity. Somehow, we've gone from: "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”" to "Get out of our country you darned foreigner!"

Racism has long steered the conversation over undocumented immigrants. With terms like "Illegal Immigrant" It's allowed the conversation to move away from reforming the system, and it's steered the conversation away from the issues the people claim to have. (Legitimately, or not).

[onlinebiker]

Dolts.


I have NEVER said I was against immigration.

You just all made that shit up and obfuscated.


The question - should we deport those people who have been given a hearing and were rejected?


It'  s a simple question.


But watch the non- answers pour in....