If he’s everywhere, then you’ve just destroyed your own gap argument.

It’s a sideline, though. A god who isn’t here or a god that’s everywhere in such a way as to not seem to be here is the practical equivalent of no god at all. In a thread about the benefits of religion.,. That’s interesting....because whatever benefit it provides, it’s clear that it does or doesn’t do so regardless of the presence or absence of a god, and the absence of such a god clearly wouldn’t bother believers who hold s position like your own in the first place.

At work.

Hello AtlassS33!

Would you say/posit that your diety is 'Everywhere' and 'Everwhen'?

Cheers.

A fun summary might be that we don’t need to know where Waldo is to know whether he’s on our city block, and that it doesn’t actually matter whether Waldo -is- with respect to the question of Waldo benefits and Waldo belief.

(July 16, 2019 at 5:36 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(July 16, 2019 at 5:10 pm)Brian37 Wrote: It is simply a false perception, a comforting lie, a placebo.

It is simply a comic book reflection of our evolutionary grouping, our desire to survive.

That's what it is, certainly.  And you touched tangentially on what it provides - comfort.  Is a comforting lie any less comforting because it isn't true?

There's a terrific story by Twain called 'Was It Heaven?  Or Hell?' in which two elderly, devout sisters go against their faith to tell a series of lies to their niece and great-niece so neither will know the other one is dying.  These lies serve no other purpose but to comfort two terminally ill people.  Religion is much the same - false, but comforting.  And I'd be the last person to deny anyone comfort.

Boru

Well, my father died in prolonged manner from parkinson's derived dementia in very slow installments. He was a devout catholic. It was pretty cruel to watch.

There is no way on earth I would have engaged my atheism with his illness. He did not need that hassle. Not then. Not even when all of his regrets spilled out. It would have been cruel to do so.

Far better to ignore that elephant in the room. 

I would rather that we parted in peace than in some pointless existential argument. And so we did.

That said, I did get to have a frank discussion with the man, not the father figure, before he totally lost it. He was racked with guilt. For things he thought he had done and would condemn him to hell.  This was a man who was scrupulously honest all his life, and he was worried about hell. This from a man how raised 4 children all degreed and all experts in their various fields. At least I could address that strange guilt without being an atheist activist.

I have always said that he was not a gentleman, He was a gentle man. Subtle distinction. I miss him, the old bugger, but religion messed up his mind.

I grew up Catholic. I can honestly say that I never found religion uplifting. All it ever offered me was fear and guilt. Discovering that I was an atheist filled me with an overwhelming feeling of emancipation.

(July 16, 2019 at 5:07 pm)EgoDeath Wrote: Time and time again we have had conversations with religious whack-jobs who come on this forum with some tired, washed up platitudes and tell us, "Checkmate, Atheists! Bet you can't explain this one!" I would say about 99% of the time we easily dismantle their silly arguments; whether or not they choose to admit, or whether they realize, their logic is faulty is another story entirely. But, for the most part, I can safely say that no theist here on this forum has ever thrown a curve ball at me that I either didn't see coming or haven't seen before. The most of you could probably say the same for themselves.

That being said, religion does seem to offer something to billions of people around the world. I have argued, and still believe, that whatever religion offers to people, other systems in life could offer the same, if not better. Through logical thinking and rational discourse, I've come to appreciate my place in this universe as entirely insignificant. While I may have found meaning in my life and people that I care about, our existence here basically means nothing. And that is, undoubtedly, one of the most beautiful things about our time here. It's as if we're a little flower that's sprouted up in an empty garden.

I am hoping here to start a list of what it is that religion provides for people. We can, as atheists, at least speculate about what it is that people draw from being believers, people of faith.

I think that that faith and belief provides:

Comfort in death
A sense of belonging
A sense of purpose
A community
A conduit for shared experiences, of which the psychological benefits are great
A sense of understanding the history of the world, even if that history is completely or mostly inaccurate
A feeling of having someone there when one is completely lonely or hopeless
People also seem to get some benefit from prayer

If anyone thinks this list needs added to or subtracted from, please reply.

Religion is a tool used to break down the barrier that sin puts between you and God. 
Though the things (more or less) you listed above God use those as a support structure to help you weather the storms he will need to put into your life to break down that wall. Now depending on how hard your heart is or how thick your skull is this may take years or even a life time.

The end result is DIRECT communion with God himself/The Holy Spirit. No priests no church no preachers. God promises to pour out the Holy Spirit on his followers. The first measure we get are fruit or evidences which change our personality and temperament, if we embrace these changes next we get access to the holy Spirit via gifts. or abilities. You will be able to do things you know do not come from you.
Access to God library, direct communication, Then you will be given tasks. Tasks you could not other wise complete with your ability or skill set.

Then religion becomes a place where you help others find what you found.

You ask God a question you get a direct answer. God can I have abc, and ABC shows up along with consequences 123. To the point where you stop asking for stuff and allow him to provide what you need when you need it.

---

That said religion can be a double edge sword in that it can become a horrible place focoused on the right ritual and traditional way of doing things. it becomes very check list and forumatic to the point God no longer become apart of the process. It becomes a place where people mindlessly follow the religious formula rather than seek and commune with God.

Bit like a malfunctioning snack machine. Though, that probably is one of the more uniform benefits if religion. Hope for wish fulfillment.

Pretty much any religion is going to lay out a series of steps to take toward a goal or end state, and the longer ( or even more impossible) that series of steps are, the better and longer motivated a person becomes while spooling out their days.

It’s nice to have something to work towards, regardless of whether or not it’s achievable.

(July 18, 2019 at 7:53 am)Gwaithmir Wrote: I grew up Catholic. I can honestly say that I never found religion uplifting. All it ever offered me was fear and guilt. Discovering that I was an atheist filled me with an overwhelming feeling of emancipation.

Yeah, as someone also raised Catholic, I think that's the point of Catholicism. But if there's anything I've learned since falling in love with a non-denominational Christian it's that Christianity doesn't have to be that way.

(July 18, 2019 at 11:48 am)Aegon Wrote: Yeah, as someone also raised Catholic, I think that's the point of Catholicism. But if there's anything I've learned since falling in love with a non-denominational Christian it's that Christianity doesn't have to be that way.

It doesn't have to be only because people choose to believe what they believe a la carte as Hitchens liked to describe it. A set of faith beliefs that is anything close to the Christianity of the Bible is a deplorable thing.

(July 18, 2019 at 11:47 am)Gae Bolga Wrote: Bit like a malfunctioning snack machine.  Though, that probably is one of the more uniform benefits if religion.  Hope for wish fulfillment.

Pretty much any religion is going to lay out a series of steps to take toward a goal or end state, and the longer ( or even more impossible) that series of steps are, the better and longer motivated a person becomes while spooling out their days.

It’s nice to have something to work towards, regardless of whether or not it’s achievable.

ask seek knock are the only three steps

knock meaning continue the first two till God shows up again usally in the way of fruit then gifts