El Paso Shooting (Yes, Again)

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

[The Grand Nudger]

It is, in the us, at least. Not sure if the stats play out the same there. Here, they’re also involved in the largest number of shootings not related to mass shooting.

Handguns are a lever with an immense amount of purchase on outcomes. A place where little force can do lots of work, and where the most work exists to be done if we want to apply greater pressure.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

It is, in the us, at least.  Not sure if the stats play out the same there.

I don't disagree, just making the point that OLB is being unaccountablly dismissive of the seizure of the preferred weapons of mass shooters.

Mass shootings in Ireland and the UK don't constitute a large enough statistical universe to be meaningful.

Boru

[onlinebiker]

It is, in the us, at least.  Not sure if the stats play out the same there.

I don't disagree, just making the point that OLB is being unaccountablly dismissive of the seizure of the preferred weapons of mass shooters.

Mass shootings in Ireland and the UK don't constitute a large enough statistical universe to be meaningful.

Boru

Quite the twist there.

Yes - handguns are the " prefered weapon" of mass shooters.

They are also the prefered weapon of civilian self defense, sport shooters and arthritic grandmothers...

But you just concentrate on the smallest percentage.


It's what the left does.

[Peebothuhlu]

At work.

So, I admit to being a 'Stinky foreigner' but the whole notion of "Gun as an implement of self defense" has always seemed completely gormless.

A gun for hunting. Or target shooting. Or military use. Or police use. These I can grok. But 'Self defence'?

Trully puzzled by the notion.

Cheers.

[Alan4Discussion]

[Amarok]

Quite the twist there.

Not really

Yes - handguns are the " prefered weapon" of mass shooters.

Yup which is relivant 

They are also the prefered weapon of civilian self defense, sport shooters and arthritic grandmothers...

Fallacy of exclusion 

But you just concentrate on the smallest percentage.


It's what the left does.

Nah it's more like gun nuts like you just wanna down play it

[The Grand Nudger]

Yep, lots of handguns. That’s part of why there are lots of handgun accidents.

Handgun legislation has the potential to cut down the largest chunk of gun related deaths and injuries as a result of any activity or user outside of explicitly hunting accidents. Handguns also account for a portion of these as well.

For death, though...

Overwhelmingly handguns.
Mostly suicide.
Equal parts cops and robbers in the remainder.
Minuscule amount of accidents gobbling up a sliver of percentages.

[Belacqua]

So, I admit to being a 'Stinky foreigner' but the whole notion of "Gun as an implement of self defense" has always seemed completely gormless.

Me too. Well, I was raised in the US, but have been in Japan for 32 years now.

It would be interesting to see research comparing the US and Japan. Japan has plenty of violent video games and movies. It also has a huge number of virgin gamer men in their 20s and 30s. Yet these guys are known as "herbivores" (literally "grass-eaters" 草食系) who are depicted as harmless. As far as I know there is no resentful "Incel" community where people fantasize about taking revenge on "Stacey." 

(Obviously there is a murderer or two every year who finds himself a "girlfriend" to keep in his freezer, but I don't think there's a whole on-line community of these freaks.) 

To me the biggest difference is the American image of the tough guy. The macho man. Fuck them if they can't take a joke. If they disagree with me on politics or religion I have no more empathy -- go ahead and tell them they're assholes. All that stuff. It's common on this forum. Once someone is in the "out group" we call them "chew toys." Not worthy of our respect. 

In Japan the samurai (now defunct) and the Yakuza are tough guys. The Yakuza are a tiny minority, and every normal person just steers clear. My city is famous for having a lot of Yakuza, and I occasionally see one on the sidewalk, but if you're not looking for trouble they won't bother you. Every normal person sees the tough-guy pose as ridiculous. 

So maybe in the US the problem is partly due to violent movies and games, but mostly the I'm Tougher Than You ethos makes people think that this violence can be imported comfortably into real life. This plus the guns means a violent culture.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

I don't disagree, just making the point that OLB is being unaccountablly dismissive of the seizure of the preferred weapons of mass shooters.

Mass shootings in Ireland and the UK don't constitute a large enough statistical universe to be meaningful.

Boru

Quite the twist there.

Yes - handguns are the " prefered weapon" of mass shooters.

They are also the prefered weapon of civilian self defense, sport shooters and arthritic grandmothers...

But you just concentrate on the smallest percentage.


It's what the left does.

For the teenth time, I don't have an issue with gun ownership.  My post was not about that.

You said that handguns are the most common weapon used in mass shootings.  Ok.  I'm just curious as to why you referred to the Dublin smuggler's cargo as 'just handguns'.  If handguns are the primary weapon used in mass shootings, wouldn't you see curtailing (not banning) their availability as at least one possible way of reducing either the number of mass shootings or the number of victims?

And before you snap off on the wrong tangent, I don't have a problem with you, personally, owning firearms.  Based on your posts here, you seem to know a lot about them (more than I do, anyroad), and you seem well aware of the safety issues involved.  YOU aren't the problem.

Boru