El Paso Shooting (Yes, Again)

[LastPoet]

LOL. My y-donor bought a gun on credit while dressed in his underwear. The gunshop owners made a sale, EOF.

Serious? O.O;

[Gawdzilla Sama]

LOL. My y-donor bought a gun on credit while dressed in his underwear. The gunshop owners made a sale, EOF.

Serious? O.O;

Yep. He had full blown Alz. He also had about two dozen handguns in his room when he died. We had confiscated more than that. He liked to walk around in his skivvies with a gun in his waistband. I accused him of holding his dick at gunpoint.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

If I could point to a situation where legal, law-abiding gun owners ARE the problem, and proposed a solution that would affect you (but not inconvenience you greatly) while potentially reducing school shootings in the US by 80%, would you be willing to discuss it?

Boru

Of course.


But anything you come up with will not be assumed as " fact".

Those need to be proven.

Fair enough.

First off, 80% of schools shooters got their weapons from family members without those members' knowledge (  this is an opinion piece, but has links to the original research https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/20...oters-data ).

Given that, it seems clear that some people (not all) have unsecured weapons in their homes.  From what I've been able to learn, this is NOT a crime in most of the US.  In other words, a person with an unsecured weapon or weapons is pretty generally a law-abiding gun owner.

What objections would you raise to making having unsecured weapons in a private home a serious crime, something along the lines of criminal endangerment?  Bear in mind that there are several models of gun safes that you can give access to your gun in two seconds or less (the price of these seems to be somewhat less than the price of a handgun).

Two scenarios:

Little Timmy finds Uncle Joe's pistol in the nightstand, steals it, and kills two classmate and a teacher the next day.  Uncle Joe is charged and found guilty of criminal endangerment and goes to prison for three years.

Little Jimmy finds Uncle Jack's bedside safe, but it is bolted to the nightstand and Jimmy doesn't have the code to unlock it.  Most likely, Jimmy gives up and cools off.  But let's say he doesn't. Somehow, without alerting Uncle Jack, he manages to unbolt the safe and get it out of the house.  After several hours' work with a hammer and chisel, he manages to get the safe open, takes the gun and kills the first three people he sees.  The police investigate and determine that Uncle Jack did everything that he could reasonably be expected to do to secure his gun.  He isn't charged with a crime.

Does this make sense to you?  That gun owners should be required take precautions to secure their firearms, and that this should be enforceable by law?

Boru

[The Grand Nudger]

It is a crime, actually. We just don’t put much effort to enforcing it. What’s funny, is that when we fail to enforce the implicit premises of child endangerment laws we pass explicit CAP laws.....which we then promptly fail to enforce as well.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

It is a crime, actually.  We just don’t put much effort to enforcing it.  What’s funny, is that when we fail to enforce the implicit premises of child endangerment laws we pass explicit CAP laws.....which we then promptly fail to enforce as well.

I'm given to understand that this varies pretty widely depending on which part of the US you happen to be in, and most of the laws seem to apply to gun locks, not gun safes.

Is there a way to increase enforcement of the laws already on the books?

Boru

[Gawdzilla Sama]

"I think we need to focus more on memorials before we start the politics."
-- Texas Gov. Abbott on El Paso shooting, the fourth mass killing in a week

"Has been the subject of one of the greatest pieces of fraud -- I repeat the word 'fraud' -- on the American public by special interest groups that I have ever seen in my lifetime."
-- former Supreme Court Justice Warren Burger on the Second Amendment, 1991

[The Grand Nudger]

I'm given to understand that this varies pretty widely depending on which part of the US you happen to be in, and most of the laws seem to apply to gun locks, not gun safes.

Is there a way to increase enforcement of the laws already on the books?

Boru

That it’s a crime doesn’t vary. How restrictive the scope of the crime is can.

One way to increase enforcement is to properly fund and staff those bodies charged with the task. Bodies we intentionally ( and surgically) defunded and understaffed precisely -so- these laws would be largely toothless.

We need police departments willing to build that case, and das willing to carry the charges over the line. Then we need to have some means of ensuring follow thru ( the no guns tag on ids from this thread or the other was a great idea)

[Amarok]

It's his way of admitting that he doesn't have a rational response. He is required to make SOME response, and "stupid"k is the default.

And yours is being a lying cunt.

Nah that's still you

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Require the problem children to have NO GUNS on their ID -- AND REQUIRE AN ID CHECK ON ALL SALES. Failure to comply is a felony.

Or create laws that apply to everyone and ignore you stupid  gun nutter idea's . Let's go with that .

Every time they lock up a gun criminal - they have to let out one guy who is doing time for drugs...

No how about we don't

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"I think we need to focus more on memorials before we start the politics."
-- Texas Gov. Abbott on El Paso shooting, the fourth mass killing in a week

"Has been the subject of one of the greatest pieces of fraud -- I repeat the word 'fraud' -- on the American public by special interest groups that I have ever seen in my lifetime."
-- former Supreme Court Justice Warren Burger on the Second Amendment, 1991

Amazing

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Obstreperous Loutish Buffoon just doesn't read his own posts.

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And yours is being a lying cunt.

Nah that's still you

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Require the problem children to have NO GUNS on their ID -- AND REQUIRE AN ID CHECK ON ALL SALES. Failure to comply is a felony.

Or create laws that apply to everyone and ignore you stupid  gun nutter idea's . Let's go with that .

Every time they lock up a gun criminal - they have to let out one guy who is doing time for drugs...

No how about we don't

---

"I think we need to focus more on memorials before we start the politics."
-- Texas Gov. Abbott on El Paso shooting, the fourth mass killing in a week

"Has been the subject of one of the greatest pieces of fraud -- I repeat the word 'fraud' -- on the American public by special interest groups that I have ever seen in my lifetime."
-- former Supreme Court Justice Warren Burger on the Second Amendment, 1991

Amazing

I remember when people respected SCOTUS.

[onlinebiker]

Obstreperous Loutish Buffoon just doesn't read his own posts.

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Nah that's still you

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Or create laws that apply to everyone and ignore you stupid  gun nutter idea's . Let's go with that .


No how about we don't

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Amazing

I remember when people respected SCOTUS.

Like -

District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008),[1] is a landmark case in which the Supreme Court of the United States held that the  protects an individual's Right to keep and bear arms, unconnected with service in a militia, for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense 


Oh wait -thats a " bad court " ruling....