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RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God
August 13, 2019 at 3:55 pm
(This post was last modified: August 13, 2019 at 3:56 pm by LadyForCamus.)
(August 13, 2019 at 3:50 pm)Acrobat Wrote: (August 13, 2019 at 3:27 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: Lol, my point is, if, according to Acro, there is no moral relevancy to the fact of my head chopped off, what’s the point of him debating morality at all?
The world of scientific and historical facts are just the way things are, the reality of goodness is about the way it ought to be. It's a reality, like an ideal, a perfection, a perfect kingdom, a perfect person.
We see the good in our reality through this, as well as all it's failings. The holocaust is a bad, because it's something that should have never taken place in that perfect kingdom. It's bad because it reflects what is broken, and we recognize that which is broken, by seeing even dimly, something whole.
So...the Holocaust isn’t bad because it hurts people?
...so...hurting people isn’t bad then?
🤷♀️
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Wiser words were never spoken.
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RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God
August 13, 2019 at 3:58 pm
(August 13, 2019 at 3:55 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: (August 13, 2019 at 3:50 pm)Acrobat Wrote: The world of scientific and historical facts are just the way things are, the reality of goodness is about the way it ought to be. It's a reality, like an ideal, a perfection, a perfect kingdom, a perfect person.
We see the good in our reality through this, as well as all it's failings. The holocaust is a bad, because it's something that should have never taken place in that perfect kingdom. It's bad because it reflects what is broken, and we recognize that which is broken, by seeing even dimly, something whole.
So...the Holocaust isn’t bad because it hurts people?
...so...hurting people isn’t bad then?
🤷♀️ hurting people is bad, because we shouldn’t be hurting people. The badness is the result of doing what should not have been done.
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RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God
August 13, 2019 at 4:01 pm
(August 13, 2019 at 3:58 pm)Acrobat Wrote: (August 13, 2019 at 3:55 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: So...the Holocaust isn’t bad because it hurts people?
...so...hurting people isn’t bad then?
🤷♀️ hurting people is bad, because we shouldn’t be hurting people. The badness is the result of doing what should not have been done.
Oh, yes, I’m sorry. I forgot about option 3:
“Hurting people is bad, not because it hurts them, but because of some other magical thing I can’t explain, that is totally unrelated to the fact that when you hurt someone, they get hurt.”
This is really something, Acro. I’ve never seen anything like it. Or, maybe I don’t post enough.
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RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God
August 13, 2019 at 4:11 pm
@ Acrobat
Is “The Good” at all concerned with well-being?
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RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God
August 13, 2019 at 4:25 pm
Hurt is a natural fact, and a fact of a matter.
Why shouldn’t we be hurting people, though? Why shouldn’t that be done?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God
August 13, 2019 at 4:27 pm
Because god says so. And, around and around we go...
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RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God
August 13, 2019 at 4:33 pm
(This post was last modified: August 13, 2019 at 4:39 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
More mystifying perhaps.
If the notion that we shouldn’t be doing something is the moral bad making property.
Well
I shouldn’t strip a screw. I shouldn’t put a fork in a microwave. I shouldn’t piss into the wind.
All of the above must be morally bad, correct?
Putting the normatives ahead of the content, and omitting the necessary evaluative premises inevitably turns a moral system into the idiocy above. Where hurting people is bad for the same reason and like stripping a screw, putting forks in the microwave, and pissing into the wind.
So I guess we can add it to the pile. Acro is an arbitrary supernatural subjective command theorist. “Bad” is whatever god happens to determine that we shouldn’t do.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God
August 13, 2019 at 4:39 pm
(August 13, 2019 at 3:58 pm)Acrobat Wrote: (August 13, 2019 at 3:55 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: So...the Holocaust isn’t bad because it hurts people?
...so...hurting people isn’t bad then?
🤷♀️ hurting people is bad, because we shouldn’t be hurting people. The badness is the result of doing what should not have been done.
What if I hurt someone to stop them from hurting someone else? In other words, suppose I use a willow bat to severely beat a man who is torturing a baby? Have I committed a good act or a bad one?
Boru
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RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God
August 13, 2019 at 4:42 pm
(This post was last modified: August 13, 2019 at 5:04 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Only god can beat people with willow bats. We’re not to judge or do, he didn’t say anything about himself.
The entire premise of Christian “morality” is to disabuse oneself of responsibility by becoming an amoral cretin who praises an immoral god.
(August 13, 2019 at 3:44 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: @Gae Bolga
For my education purposes, what would be an example of non-natural realism?
The notion that moral propositions are not reducible to natural properties....in any number of novel uses of the term “natural”. Specifically -not- supernatural or divine uses, though, amusingly. To a non natural realist, a divine or supernatural explanation is wrong for the same reason that a natural one is. Being super-wrong is still wrong, after all, lol.
So, for example, the idea that hurting things isn’t bad, but...rather, that hurting things conforms to or typifies our idea of bad. The conformity is the bad maker, not the hurting.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God
August 13, 2019 at 5:07 pm
(August 13, 2019 at 4:25 pm)Gae Bolga Wrote: Hurt is a natural fact, and a fact of a matter.
Why shouldn’t we be hurting people, though? Why shouldn’t that be done?
Hurting is a natural fact, the wrongness of it is not, it’s only wrong because we shouldn’t hurt people.
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