Obviously you're still not convinced that he doesn't exist because you continue to search. There's something going on there. I don't think you will find him based on your criteria and your resistance to faith. Maybe you equate believing in God with accepting a particular religion. The thing with God is we have to do things his way.
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God, Energy and Matter
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Why? Why do we have to do things, and what things, a gods way?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
  RE: God, Energy and Matter
September 5, 2019 at 4:55 pm
(This post was last modified: September 5, 2019 at 5:00 pm by Simon Moon.)
(September 5, 2019 at 1:30 pm)Lek Wrote: Obviously you're still not convinced that he doesn't exist because you continue to search. There's something going on there. As I've stated many times in many threads on this forum, my position is not, "I am absolutely certain that gods don't exist", my position is "I am not convinced that gods do exist". Although, I am close to certain, for way to many reasons to list here. Of course "there's something going on there". That something is, that the vast majority of humanity, believes in various gods, for what I can only see are irrational, unevidenced reasons. I want to know why, and if they have good reasons, I want to know about it. My interest in why people believe in gods, is no different than my interest in why people believe in alien visitations, which I am also unconvinced of. So, does the fact that I open mindedly look at "evidence" people provide for alien visitations mean there must be, "something going on there"? Do I secretly or unconsciously believe in alien visitations? Quote:I don't think you will find him based on your criteria and your resistance to faith. As soon as someone can demonstrate to me how faith is a reliable path to knowledge, I will reevaluate it. As far as I can tell, it is indistinguishable from gullibility. To continue to beat a dead horse, Hindus have faith, Muslims have faith, Zoroastrians have faith, Sikhs have faith, and they all have reached mutually exclusive god beliefs. This fact alone, is pretty strong evidence that faith is unreliable. If your god is so hidden from the type of method, that he should know is the best way from telling fact from fantasy, why is that my fault? If he exists, he created my this way, unable to believe without good evidence and reasoned argument. And yet, he continues to fail to provide said evidence. Again, how can I be responsible for my disbelief? Quote:Maybe you equate believing in God with accepting a particular religion. The thing with God is we have to do things his way. Oh please... After I left religion, I was a pantheist, and a deist for years. I am perfectly capable of understanding that belief in gods, does not have to equate with religion. You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.  (September 5, 2019 at 2:58 pm)Lek Wrote:(September 5, 2019 at 1:51 pm)Gae Bolga Wrote: Why? Why do we have to do things, and what things, a gods way? Sounds like most of my exes. Boru
‘I can’t be having with this.’ - Esmeralda Weatherwax
 RE: God, Energy and Matter
September 5, 2019 at 8:36 pm
(This post was last modified: September 5, 2019 at 9:03 pm by Lek.)
(September 5, 2019 at 4:55 pm)Simon Moon Wrote: To continue to beat a dead horse, Hindus have faith, Muslims have faith, Zoroastrians have faith, Sikhs have faith, and they all have reached mutually exclusive god beliefs. This fact alone, is pretty strong evidence that faith is unreliable. They're not mutually exclusive. All the faiths you mentioned believe in one all powerful and all knowing God who created and sustains our universe. Hindus and Sikhs don't even try to proselytize because they believe that other religions can lead to the same God. These faiths agree that it is impossible to totally comprehend God in our human state. They have different ideas about God based on religious and cultural differences. They can't all be right about those things, but they all can be right about the existence of God. Those who believe in him are moving toward that goal of comprehending God completely. Earlier in this thread we were discussing quasars. Astronomers all agree that quasars exist, but the don't agree on what they are or what their total effects on the universe are. Nonetheless they know that they exist. Quote:If your god is so hidden from the type of method, that he should know is the best way from telling fact from fantasy, why is that my fault? If he exists, he created my this way, unable to believe without good evidence and reasoned argument. And yet, he continues to fail to provide said evidence. Again, how can I be responsible for my disbelief I think we'll all come to that belief eventually. It will just take some longer than others. And yes, I think you are to blame. I take it back about the blame part. That's not for me to judge. Sorry. (September 5, 2019 at 8:36 pm)Lek Wrote: Earlier in this thread we were discussing quasars. Astronomers all agree that quasars exist, but the don't agree on what they are or what their total effects on the universe are. Nonetheless they know that they exist. "Know" doesn't mean what you think it means, boy. 
Hello again. (^_^)
uhm.. I'm a little confused still. How can Lek have an 'Objective diety' when all they have is subjective experiance? Both Lek and I experiance the Objective Sun our planet orbits around. This we can agree upon. Lek's diety, hower, seems to only exist within Lek's own mind...? Or am I missing something else? Cheers. Not at work. RE: God, Energy and Matter
September 6, 2019 at 1:41 pm
(This post was last modified: September 6, 2019 at 1:46 pm by Simon Moon.)
(September 5, 2019 at 8:36 pm)Lek Wrote:(September 5, 2019 at 4:55 pm)Simon Moon Wrote: To continue to beat a dead horse, Hindus have faith, Muslims have faith, Zoroastrians have faith, Sikhs have faith, and they all have reached mutually exclusive god beliefs. This fact alone, is pretty strong evidence that faith is unreliable. I think this is a load of BS. Christians believe that the only way heaven is by belief/worship of Jesus. Muslims believe that there is a special place in Jahannam (Islam hell) for Christians, and only being a follower of Allah will get you to the Islam heaven. Hindus believe in 3 main gods, and when you die you go to Naraka to have your sins burned away, then are reincarnated, etc, etc. Their beliefs are mutually exclusive. Sure, they can all be right about the existence of gods, in the most general way. But they can also all be wrong. Too bad none of them are able to demonstrate their theistic claims. If you are arguing for a deist god(s) (a nonpersonal god(s) of first cause, that does not interact with its creation), then yes, all those religions have the belief in god(s) in common. No argument here. Quote:Earlier in this thread we were discussing quasars. Astronomers all agree that quasars exist, but the don't agree on what they are or what their total effects on the universe are. Nonetheless they know that they exist. Yes, scientist know they exist because of massive amounts of evidence, observation, elegant math that supports their existence, etc. If anything like the evidence for the existence of quasars, existed for the existence of gods, we wouldn't be having this discussion. I would be convinced gods exist. Quote: I think we'll all come to that belief eventually. It will just take some longer than others. And yes, I think you are to blame. What if I were to die today? I would be dying a nonbeliever. What about the many known atheists who are still atheists on their deathbed? And millions unknown? You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence. |
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