God, Energy and Matter

[Deesse23]

The idea of a purposeless universe doesn't jibe with my mentality.

The universe doesnt give a shit about your mentality. Why should it?

Everything I perceive on this earth has a purpose.  In the same way, I look for the purpose of the existence of the universe.  

Thats a big, fat non sequitur. Why should the universe in its behaviour or properties resemble you of all things in the universe? Why should the universe not be like a quasar, of which there are countless more than people and who have unfathomably more impact on it?

[Rahn127]

What purpose do tools have ?
One might argue the purpose of a tool is to be used.

What purpose do gullible people have ?
Same as any tool.

Lek, you're a tool.

[polymath257]

But again, you are looking for some transcendent meaning. So here's a question: why is being a creation of some deity meaningful to you? Why is that deity having a plan for you meaningful to you? Why are those things that convey a sense of personal worth to you?

These things are meaningful to me because we as humans always have a purpose for the things we do.  We don't just do things "because".  We don't "just go" to work every day.  We go because we need to make money to survive and acquire things and so on.  Everything I do has a purpose. The idea of a purposeless universe doesn't jibe with my mentality.  Everything I perceive on this earth has a purpose.  In the same way, I look for the purpose of the existence of the universe.  

As far as God having a plan for me, I just think his plan for me is to return to him.  It's important to me because my ultimate desire is to reunite with the one from whom I originated,.

Once again, you are limited to this one, very small planet and trying to generalize to the whole universe. You proceed with purpose in your actions because *you* have chosen what you want to do. The vast majority of even the Earth isn't 'purposeful'. And once you get off of this little ball, the universe as a whole shows nothing even remotely like a purpose.

Once again, when the Earth was considered to be the center of the universe and the universe itself was seen to be less than, say, a couple of billion miles across, it made some sense to think of ourselves as important in the grand scheme of things.
.
But the real world isn't like that. If we made a scale model of the universe where the distance from the sun to the earth is an inch, the earth itself would be invisible. The solar system would be about three yards across. And the nearest star other than the sun would be over 4 miles away. Our galaxy would be around 100,000 miles across (on this scale, mind you). And there are hundreds of billions of galaxies that we know about.

Thinking that humans are special in any way is worse that a single ant in some ant colony in the Amazon thinking it is important to how the Earth functions.

Laughable

[Simon Moon]

These things are meaningful to me because we as humans always have a purpose for the things we do.

Yes, as humans we define our own purpose.

The fact that you believe there is some sort of purpose imposed on us by a god, is just you defining your own purpose. You're just crediting an outside source.

We don't just do things "because".  We don't "just go" to work every day.  We go because we need to make money to survive and acquire things and so on.  Everything I do has a purpose.

Yes, a purpose created by each of us, even you.

The idea of a purposeless universe doesn't jibe with my mentality.

Your wishful thinking has nothing to do with what is real.

[Lek]

So you don't feel that you are reunited right now ?
What purpose would reuniting fulfill ?

Knowing the purpose for and understanding all that exists.

Do you think your god needs something from you ?
Aren't you already connected ?
Aren't you already united ?

Yes, I'm connected, but haven't fully realized total unity.

What do you think would change after you're dead ?
Do you think you would finally experience a TRUE connection to your god ?

Eventually, yes.

And what purpose will that serve ? You know, to actually see and hear god. What's the purpose of that ?

To be totally and infinitely existent.  To be intimate with every aspect of creation.

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Once again, you are limited to this one, very small planet and trying to generalize to the whole universe. You proceed with purpose in your actions because *you* have chosen what you want to do. The vast majority of even the Earth isn't 'purposeful'. And once you get off of this little ball, the universe as a whole shows nothing even remotely like a purpose.

Once again, when the Earth was considered to be the center of the universe and the universe itself was seen to be less than, say, a couple of billion miles across, it made some sense to think of ourselves as important in the grand scheme of things.
.
But the real world isn't like that. If we made a scale model of the universe where the distance from the sun to the earth is an inch, the earth itself would be invisible. The solar system would be about three yards across. And the nearest star other than the sun would be over 4 miles away. Our galaxy would be around 100,000 miles across (on this scale, mind you). And there are hundreds of billions of galaxies that we know about.

Thinking that humans are special in any way is worse that a single ant in some ant colony in the Amazon thinking it is important to how the Earth functions.

Laughable

I don't understand why you believe that because we are a very small part of the universe that we are of little importance. All of the universe is as important as any other. We're all a part of the whole which supports the rest. It all formed from the same event and the same energy.

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I'm going to try to respond to all the posts here, but when I post once I get 5 or 6 replies, so it takes some time and thought.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

I don't understand why you believe that because we are a very small part of the universe that we are of little importance. All of the universe is as important as any other. We're all a part of the whole which supports the rest. It all formed from the same event and the same energy.

There is a quasar known as ULAS J1342+0928.  It is 13+ billion lightyears away. It is 800 million times more massive than our sun and 40 trillion times more luminous.

How does my existence 'support' this quasar?

Boru

[LastPoet]

Lek wants to be infinately existent. A fools errand. I do not wish to be dead, but I will surely die someday. Just need time to do everything I can for my wife, daughter and the spawn in between that day. It will be glorious, open bar, strippers, you name it! I made sure that happens.

[Lek]

I don't understand why you believe that because we are a very small part of the universe that we are of little importance. All of the universe is as important as any other. We're all a part of the whole which supports the rest. It all formed from the same event and the same energy.

There is a quasar known as ULAS J1342+0928.  It is 13+ billion lightyears away. It is 800 million times more massive than our sun and 40 trillion times more luminous.

How does my existence 'support' this quasar?

Boru

I don't know, but is that quasar more important than you and me?  Can that quasar think, love or reason?  It would appear that the sun has more effect on me than that quasar.

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Thats a big, fat non sequitur. Why should the universe in its behaviour or properties resemble you of all things in the universe? Why should the universe not be like a quasar, of which there are countless more than people and who have unfathomably more impact on it?

Stars are burning out all the time. I'm sure the part of the universe that is closer to a quasar is highly effected by it. It has it's place in the universe as I have mine. My family depends on me. I depend on the one who sustains the universe. I don't see why a quasar is more important to the universe than a human being or anything else. It's just a functioning part of the whole universe.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

I don't know, but is that quasar more important than you and me?  Can that quasar think, love or reason?  It would appear that the sun has more effect on me than that quasar.

But you said, 'We're all a part of the whole which supports the rest.'  Your weird sentence structure aside, I take that to mean that everything in the universe supports everything else in the universe.  I would like to know how I support that quasar.

The notion that everything is of equal importance is necessarily false, as 'importance' is highly subjective. Is a pile of maggot-infested buffalo poo equally as  important as your sick child?

No, I'm pretty sure that a quasar can't think, love or reason, but that's got nothing to do with my question.

I agree that the sun has more effect on you than the quasar, but that's got nothing to do with my question. But according to your 'everything is equally important', the quasar should be just as important to your continued well-being as the sun.  Since it clearly isn't, your claim is false.

Boru

[Lek]

I don't know, but is that quasar more important than you and me?  Can that quasar think, love or reason?  It would appear that the sun has more effect on me than that quasar.

But you said, 'We're all a part of the whole which supports the rest.'  Your weird sentence structure aside, I take that to mean that everything in the universe supports everything else in the universe.  I would like to know how I support that quasar.

The notion that everything is of equal importance is necessarily false, as 'importance' is highly subjective. Is a pile of maggot-infested buffalo poo equally as  important as your sick child?

No, I'm pretty sure that a quasar can't think, love or reason, but that's got nothing to do with my question.

I agree that the sun has more effect on you than the quasar, but that's got nothing to do with my question. But according to your 'everything is equally important', the quasar should be just as important to your continued well-being as the sun.  Since it clearly isn't, your claim is false.

Boru

I have a different idea of what makes something important. I believe that the whole universe is a manifestation of God. Since it's all a part of God it's all equally important.

Nature has an order where the stronger and more intelligent seem to rule and we think of this when determining importance as far as survival goes, etc. But doesn't mean that the hunter is more important than the prey, which sustains it. There's a balance in nature and I'm sure that applies to the universe. We've ignored the seemingly insignificant on earth and see where it got us. Some things have turned out to be more important than we thought.

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Yes, as humans we define our own purpose.

Sure we do define much of our purpose here. I'm saying God also has a purpose for his creation. I guess I did decide to search for that purpose, but I believe because God has impressed it upon me as he has on billions of other reasonable people.

Yes, a purpose created by each of us, even you.

That's where we disagree. I didn't create God's purpose for me.

Your wishful thinking has nothing to do with what is real.

It's not wishful thinking. It's a philosophical opinion coming from reasoning and revelation.