Maher/Corden and obesity

[Shell B]

Yes, that is what's happening. Did you even see the full video of Maher talking about this? The whole "fat shaming" line was one small part of a much larger conversation about obesity and healthcare.

And the people saying he was out of line weren't referencing the conversation about obesity and healthcare. In fact, they furthered that conversation. They were not at all crying foul at saying the word obese, which you insinuated.

That's literally what tons of people do now. They cry fat-shaming as soon as obesity is even brought up.

Is that what's happening here?

Watch the whole video. Maybe you still think it's not funny, or a bit mean-spirited, but what do you expect from Maher? It doesn't change the legitimacy of what he's saying.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dm4TAdiEFn0

Please refer back to the things people in this thread and in the article found distasteful. Your entire rant was that no one can say obese when literally no one cared about people saying obese.

[EgoDeath]

I've never seen a more useless phrase than "literally tons of people"

Or maybe you did truly literally mean it, fat-shamer.

Actually, plenty of people do literally react this way to discussions of obesity. It's precisely what James Corden is doing. Maybe if he felt a little more superior, he could shed a few pounds.  

But in all seriousness, no one is saying we should point and laugh every time we see a fat person in public. Kids who get bullied about their weight can grow up with self-esteem issues, which leads to more overeating. So I get what Corden is saying, but why is Corden even reacting this way? Maher didn't say anything egregious. He even says, "We shouldn't taunt people about it. And overeating shouldn't be singled out as the only vice..." He also stated a list of facts about the dangers of obesity, and mentioned that maybe shame is an appropriate reaction to the realization that you're overweight. Maybe that shame will motivate you to get up and move.

To me.. You're offended? Good. Get your fat ass up on the treadmill and run it off. Stop making excuses.

That's what I did, and I feel great for it. And people can't make fun of me for being fat anymore, because I can outrun and outperform the vast majority of those people who once upon a time teased me for my weight. I could probably beat the shit out of most them too, but sometimes living a good life is the best revenge you can get. I could steal most of those guys girlfriends now, funnily enough. I get interesting messages from "taken" women often enough. That never happened to me before, and for good reason. Being overweight isn't attractive to most people.

I really don't see what Maher said that was so terrible.

---

Yes, that is what's happening. Did you even see the full video of Maher talking about this? The whole "fat shaming" line was one small part of a much larger conversation about obesity and healthcare.

And the people saying he was out of line weren't referencing the conversation about obesity and healthcare. In fact, they furthered that conversation. They were not at all crying fowl at saying the word obese, which you insinuated.

That's literally what tons of people do now. They cry fat-shaming as soon as obesity is even brought up.

Is that what's happening here?

Watch the whole video. Maybe you still think it's not funny, or a bit mean-spirited, but what do you expect from Maher? It doesn't change the legitimacy of what he's saying.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dm4TAdiEFn0

Please refer back to the things people in this thread and in the article found distasteful. Your entire rant was that no one can say obese when literally no one cared about people saying obese.

Okay Shell got it.

Now, please explain to me exactly what it is all about since I'm just missing the point so terribly. Enlighten me as to what I'm missing.

[Shell B]

"He went onto argue that fat-shaming—which never left in the first place—needs to make a comeback"

He's arguing that we need to fat shame fat people. I'm pretty sure you said we shouldn't. We're all saying we shouldn't, so . . .

[EgoDeath]

"He went onto argue that fat-shaming—which never left in the first place—needs to make a comeback"

He's arguing that we need to fat shame fat people. I'm pretty sure you said we shouldn't. We're all saying we shouldn't, so . . .

He obviously didn't mean it literally, as he explicitly said:

"We shouldn't taunt people about it. And we shouldn't single out overeating as the only vice"

I believe his argument is we should stop ignoring that obesity is a problem. That "healthy at every size" is bullshit. And I agree. And it's backed by science.

Maher was essentially saying that if considering obesity to be a bad thing is fat-shaming, then maybe we should bring "fat-shaming" back.

If you're saying saying you don't find the bit funny, then okay, cool. If you're saying you find it crude or classless, fair enough. But he simply didn't say anything egregious. Being obese is a bad thing. Period.

edit: The worse thing he did, in my opinion, was not even saying to bring fat-shaming back. If anything the worse thing was when he specifically made fun of fat guys who they displayed on the screen. But you don't know that, because you didn't watch the bit, did you?

[Shell B]

He obviously didn't mean it literally, as he explicitly said:

"We shouldn't taunt people about it. And we shouldn't single out overeating as the only vice"

Then what does he consider fat shaming?

I believe his argument is we should stop ignoring that obesity is a problem. That "healthy at every size" is bullshit. And I agree. And it's backed by science.

Of course people aren't healthy at every size. I don't think Corden was arguing that. My position is that these people are clearly unhealthy, but they definitely don't need us to tell them that. Their bodies are none of your business. Maher, who is often quite funny to me, has no reason to talk about it.

Maher was essentially saying that if considering obesity to be a bad thing is fat-shaming, then maybe we should bring "fat-shaming" back.

Obesity is only bad for the people suffering from it. It's generally established that other people's bodies are their business.

If you're saying saying you don't find the bit funny, then okay, cool. If you're saying you find it crude or classless, fair enough. But he simply didn't say anything egregious. Being obese is a bad thing. Period.

I don't care about crudity or how classy comedy is. I simply think pointing out that being fat is unhealthy isn't funny because it's obvious and over done. I also think his anger at fatness is pretty fat-shaming.

But you don't know that, because you didn't watch the bit, did you?

This is an interesting thing that people do when someone doesn't agree with them.

Listen, my conversation with you started when you said people say the word obese is fat shaming. I said no one here seems to think that, and it wasn't Corden's argument. It's simple.

[EgoDeath]

Then what does he consider fat shaming?

Couldn't tell you, but it seems like he's using exaggeration and sarcasm to prove a point, not literally saying we should publicly shame people. Like I said, he literally stated, "We shouldn't taunt people about it. And we shouldn't single out overeating as the only vice..." And I take his word for it. Despite his jokes, I don't think he actually thinks we should just point and laugh at fat people when we're out in public. I don't know anyone who does think that. If I did, I wouldn't hang around them anyway.

Of course people aren't healthy at every size.

Okay, I'm glad you agree... but plenty of people do believe that, and it reflects the attitudes that people have in their reaction to discussions of obesity. The whole "body positivity" movement has gotten totally out of hand. People are making completely insane claims and acting like obesity is okay. It isn't.

I don't think Corden was arguing that. My position is that these people are clearly unhealthy, but they definitely don't need us to tell them that. Their bodies are none of your business. Maher, who is often quite funny to me, has no reason to talk about it.

I never said Corden was arguing that, but his reaction seems overly sensitive. But, Corden talks like one of these "healthy at every size" people. He repeats some of their talking points word for word. And it's no surprise, Corden is a pretty heavy set guy. But the correct reaction to feeling like shit about yourself because someone talked about obesity on a tv show is not to cry about fat-shaming - he didn't target Corden after all, did he? The correct reaction would be, "Okay, I feel uncomfortable when people talk about obesity. Maybe I should do something about my body so I feel good about myself instead."

Obesity is only bad for the people suffering from it. It's generally established that other people's bodies are their business.

Correct. That's why this is an issue of personal responsibility. Don't like how you feel about yourself? Start working out. Start eating healthy foods. Not that complicated. Not necessarily easy either. I get it. But it's not complicated.

I don't care about crudity or how classy comedy is. I simply think pointing out that being fat is unhealthy isn't funny because it's obvious and over done. I also think his anger at fatness is pretty fat-shaming.

Okay, that's your opinion. I disagree. I think making fun of a fat person, or fat people in general, can be funny. It's not the highest brow comedy, obviously, but it can be funny. The only reason you think this is offensive is because you didn't find the bit funny. In reality, the joke just missed the mark for you. Or, maybe you think fat people are off-limits. I disagree: I think anyone and everyone can be made fun of.

This is an interesting thing that people do when someone doesn't agree with them.

I'm still pretty sure you didn't watch the episode, or even the bit. So, I don't know what to tell you. It's not "an interesting thing I'm doing" because you "don't agree" with me. It really doesn't seem like you even watched the bit all the way through. Your main complaint was that he said we should bring "fat-shaming back," but I don't even think that's the worse part of the video, if you're going to consider what Maher did wrong.

Listen, my conversation with you started when you said people say the word obese is fat shaming. I said no one here seems to think that, and it wasn't Corden's argument. It's simple.

Okay, and like I said, I don't think Corden's reaction is proportionate. Maher attempted to do a bit about obesity, that was also informative, because that's what Maher does, and it missed the mark for a lot of people. A lot of people didn't find it funny, which is fine. But that doesn't mean you go on national tv and bitch about it. I mean, you're free to, I suppose, but it doesn't really seem like a proportionate reaction to a very real statement that obesity is a bad thing.

In fact, I think it did exactly what Maher wanted it to do: it got people talking about him and his show. So good for him.

I ask this, do you think there's any way at all that Maher could've done this bit without people having this butt-hurt reaction?

No. There isn't. People are so fucking sensitive now that any examination of themselves that makes them uncomfortable becomes a reflection of the person who made the statements that made them uncomfortable, and not themselves.  

You know, we are all adults, and all have to manage our own minds and bodies. When you don't like something that someone says, it might, depending on the context, be worth asking, "Why does this conversation or topic make me uncomfortable?"

[Shell B]

Whelp, it makes me feel uncomfortable because I don't want people to feel like shit over something that's no one else's business. It really bothers me that someone could be watching that and feel like they're just a pile of garbage. That's just me. I'm not obese, so it's not like it's personal. It's just a feeling I have.

[EgoDeath]

Whelp, it makes me feel uncomfortable because I don't want people to feel like shit over something that's no one else's business. It really bothers me that someone could be watching that and feel like they're just a pile of garbage. That's just me. I'm not obese, so it's not like it's personal. It's just a feeling I have.

But that's the whole point. Maybe someone feels shame because they know that they're overeating and not exercising. Unfortunately, negatives tend to motivate more than positives. Very few people just decide to change one day. It usually takes a health scare, or being rejected by a potential lover, or, over time, just getting sick of being overweight and feeling like shit every single day, like I did, and deciding they want to be healthy.

So I think that's all that Maher was saying: Let's stop treating obesity like it's okay, because it isn't. And to me, Corden's argument comes off like he thinks we shouldn't even talk about it. Stop talking about it! We know it's bad! I don't like feeling uncomfortable when you talk about it!

I'm sorry, but that's silly. Maybe you should feel uncomfortable, because you know you're harming your body.

I get what you're saying Shell, we shouldn't just make fun of people for their vices and humiliate them while offering no solutions. But can we even talk about obesity without everyone crying fat-shaming? Because that seems to be the knee-jerk reaction now, and it's ridiculous.

Once again, is there any way Maher could've brought this up without this exact reaction happening? I don't think so. Because everyone is a little snowflake now that needs to never feel uncomfortable.

Remember, I used to be heavy. You should see my driver's license photo... I can't wait to get my license renewed next year LOL. At some point, I had to decide, am I going to eat like shit every time I feel bad, or am I going to change the cycle and decide to lose weight? Eventually, I chose the latter and I feel fucking awesome now.

[GrandizerII]

Maybe because you were never required to physically interact with them. Have you ever airplaned sitting next to one? Consideration is completely one way. 

You should also experience the pleasure of work travel with an obese partner.

I once had a huge man (400 pounds +?) come down the plane aisle and try to sit in the middle seat next to my aisle seat.  As he was sitting, he asked me if he could put up the arm rest between us, and I naively assented, never having been faced with such a circumstance before.  Huge mistake.  I spent the rest of the flight sitting in less-than half of the seat I spent a full fare on, pushed up against a sweaty and stinky behemoth. I also continuously fought with the flight attendants, who insisted I not hang my shoulder and legs out in the aisle, so they could get the carts past me.

Most miserable fucking flight I've ever taken, and I've flown with seat-back kicking kids and screeching babies.

I will never again "accommodate" an obese person seated next to me on a plane.  I've had others simply pull the armrest up as they try to sit down, but I have objected, and insisted it stay down.  They looked to the flight attendant for help, who then *ask* me if they can put it down, and I say "no, I'd rather sit in the entire seat that I've paid for".  On the two other flights this has happened on, the flight attendant has found another (two) seat(s) for them, after moving someone else that's a normal weight into the seat next to mine.

I'm of the opinion that every airline ticket should require the passenger, with their baggage, to get on a scale and pay per pound.  Then a multiplier is used, depending on distance and class.   I'm tired of paying an extra fifty bucks for a fifty pound suitcase when someone else on the plane weighs a hundred pounds more than me, yet pays the same basic fare as I do.  That's just wrong.

Airplane capacity is weight-driven.  It's time that the fares are, too.

Regarding your last point:
This would be a bad move for various reasons. Completely against it.

[LadyForCamus]

And as the article mentioned, Maher seems to think that 'eating shit' is always a personal choice.  He ignores the obvious link between poverty and obesity.  It's a helluva lot cheaper to eat chips and chocolate Hobnobs than leafy greens and grilled tuna.

He is - and always has been - a myopic, self-righteous, bigoted twat.

Boru

I was going to say this. Our government just confirmed this for the dozenth time, actually.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/10/us/po...qMAVqLIwCg

Not to mention our own government is infiltrated by corporate interests who somehow convinced the FDA and an entire fucking nation that white bread is healthier than vegetables.



?????? Thanks Kellogg's ??????

Um, yeah. We don’t do the pyramid anymore. Not for years now.