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Being cannot come from Non-being
#31
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being
(November 20, 2019 at 12:01 pm)Otangelo Wrote: Being cannot come from Non-being

There is consensus in science that the universe most probably had a beginning. If the cosmos had no beginning, then there would have had to be an infinite series of past events. However, it is impossible to traverse an actual infinite. Therefore, the universe cannot be infinitely old. Besides that, If the cosmos was infinitely old, it would have reached maximum entropy a long, long, time ago. Since it has not reached maximum entropy, it cannot be infinitely old without violating the second law of thermodynamics. Although physicists such as Krauss and Hawking talk about "the universe creating itself from nothing," they are using the word "nothing" to mean the vacuum energy, which is not a true nothing. To be more precise, being cannot emerge from non-being.  If the entire cosmos came from something, that thing must transcend our cosmos, that is, it must exist beyond the limits of our space/time continuum. We may call it the First Cause. The creator must be a self-existing power. He is not created; He is eternal.   He is the One who brought time, space, and matter into existence.  Since the concept of causality deals with space, time, and matter, and since God is the one who brought space, time, and matter into existence, the concept of causality does not apply to God since it is something related to the reality of space, time, and matter. The cause of the universe must have been non-material because if the cause was material/natural, it would be subject to the same laws of decay as the universe. That means it would have to have had a beginning itself and you have the same problem as cycles of births and deaths of universes. So the cause of the universe’s beginning must have been supernatural, i.e. non-material or spirit—a cause outside of space-matter-time. Such a cause would not be subject to the law of decay and so would not have a beginning. That is, the cause had to be an eternal spirit.

You clearly haven't read the forum Rules, so you're going to get a (temporary) pass.



Quote:
  1. Spamming is not allowed. Spamming includes, but is not limited to:

  2. Creating multiple threads with the same or similar thread subject in a short space of time.Repeatedly posting responses to existing threads that are unrelated to the current discussion(s) in the thread.
  • Repeatedly posting links, copy/pasted content, or scripture verses, unless they are relevant to the thread and have the member's own comments added to them.
  • Posting an abundance of content you've pre-written for purposes other than forum use (i.e. essays, blog posts, etc.)


You need to stop copying stuff you've written for other places and posting it here. 

Boru
‘But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods or no gods. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.’ - Thomas Jefferson
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#32
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being
(November 20, 2019 at 2:19 pm)Succubus Wrote: He's been spamming this same shite for years.

Oh.

One of those...
Dying to live, living to die.
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#33
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being
Woefully Lame Craig is one of my favs.
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#34
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being
(November 20, 2019 at 2:16 pm)Gae Bolga Wrote: Astronomy and biology have incredibly detailed information about the formation of our solar system and the emergence and evolution of life, and the god hypothesis has no information whatsoever?

Abiogenesis is virtually impossible


James Tour: The Mystery of the Origin of Life


No scientific experiment has been able to come even close to synthesize the basic building blocks of life, and reproduce a self-replicating Cell in the Laboratory through self-assembly and autonomous organization.

It appears that nature itself provides conclusive evidence that natural processes are incapable of assembling a living cell.Wherever one looks there are problems. 8

Pssst! Don't tell the creationists, but scientists don't have a clue how life began


The RNA world is so dissatisfying that some frustrated scientists are resorting to much more far out—literally—speculation. Dissatisfied with conventional theories of life's beginning, Crick conjectured that aliens came to Earth in a spaceship and planted the seeds of life here billions of years ago.

Creationists are no doubt thrilled that origin-of-life research has reached such an impasse (see for example the screed "Darwinism Refuted," which cites my 1991 article), but they shouldn't be. Their explanations suffer from the same flaw: What created the divine Creator? And at least scientists are making an honest effort to solve life's mystery instead of blaming it all on God.


Paradoxes in the origin of life. 2015 Jan 22 Benner SA1.


Steve Benner is the founder and president of the Westheimer Corporation, a private research organization, and a prior Harvard University professor. He is one of the world’s leading authorities on abiogenesis. This is his evaluation of what he has observed: Discussed here is an alternative approach to guide research into the origins of life, one that focuses on “paradoxes”, pairs of statements, both grounded in theory and observation, that (taken
together) suggest that the “origins problem” cannot be solved.

We are now 60 years into the modern era of prebiotic chemistry. That era has produced tens of thousands of papers attempting to define processes by which “molecules that look like biology” might arise from “molecules that do not look like biology” …. For the most part, these papers report “success” in the sense that those papers define the term…. And yet, the problem remains unsolved

Long periods of time do not make life inevitable. Molecules rather disintegrate based on the second law of thermodynamics. and randomization turns more complete.

Since prebiotic processes are natural randomizers and abiogenesis requires specific products, it does not appear that prebiotic processes have inherent capability to meet the requirements necessitated for successful abiogenesis. This plausibly characterizes every hypothetical step of abiogenesis and explains why none have succeeded. Claude Shannon showed that randomization is the fundamental behavior and entropy is simply a mathematical expression of certain of its aspects

Observation:
The origin of life depends on biological cells, which perpetuate life upon the complex action of

- factory portals with fully automated security checkpoints and control ( membrane proteins )
- factory compartments ( organelles )
- a library index and fully automated information classification, storage and retrieval program ( chromosomes, and the gene regulatory network )
- molecular computers, hardware ( DNA )
- software, a language using signs and codes like the alphabet, an instructional blueprint, ( the genetic and over a dozen epigenetic codes )
- information retrieval ( RNA polymerase )
- transmission ( messenger RNA )
- translation ( Ribosome )
- signalling ( hormones )
- complex machines ( proteins )
- taxis ( dynein, kinesin, transport vesicles )
- molecular highways ( tubulins, used by dynein and kinesin proteins for molecular transport to various destinations )
- tagging programs ( each protein has a tag, which is an amino acid sequence ) informing other molecular transport machines where to transport them.
- factory assembly lines ( fatty acid synthase, non-ribosomal peptide synthase )
- error check and repair systems ( exonucleolytic proofreading, strand-directed mismatch repair )
- recycling methods ( endocytic recycling )
- waste grinders and management ( Proteasome Garbage Grinders )
- power generating plants ( mitochondria )
- power turbines ( ATP synthase )
- electric circuits ( the metabolic network )

Biological cells are a veritable micro-miniaturized industrial park full of interlinked and interdependent factories containing millions of exquisitely designed
pieces of intricate molecular machinery. Biological Cells do not resemble factory parks, they ARE an industrial park of various interconnected factories, working in conjunction.

Hypothesis (Prediction):
Complex machines and interconnected factory parks are intelligently designed. Biological cells are intelligently designed. Factories can not self-assemble spontaneously
by orderly aggregation and sequentially correct manner without external direction. The claim can be falsified, once someone can demonstrate that factories
can self-assemble spontaneously by orderly aggregation and sequentially correct manner without external direction.

Experiment:
Since origin of life experiments began, nobody was able to bring up an experiment, replicating the origin of life by natural means.

Eugene Koonin, advisory editorial board of Trends in Genetics, writes in his book: The Logic of Chance:
" The Nature and Origin of Biological Evolution, Eugene V. Koonin, page 351:


" The origin of life is the most difficult problem that faces evolutionary biology and, arguably, biology in general. Indeed, the problem is so hard and the current state of
the art seems so frustrating that some researchers prefer to dismiss the entire issue as being outside the scientific domain altogether, on the grounds that unique
events are not conducive to scientific study.

A succession of exceedingly unlikely steps is essential for the origin of life, from the synthesis and accumulation of nucleotides to the origin of translation; through the
multiplication of probabilities, these make the final outcome seem almost like a miracle. The difficulties remain formidable. For all the effort, we do not currently have
coherent and plausible models for the path from simple organic molecules to the first life forms. Most damningly, the powerful mechanisms of biological evolution were
not available for all the stages preceding the emergence of replicator systems. Given all these major difficulties, it appears prudent to seriously consider radical alternatives
for the origin of life. "


Scientists do not have even the slightest clue as to how life could have begun through an unguided naturalistic process absent the intervention of a
conscious creative agency. The total lack of any kind of experimental evidence leading to the re-creation of life; not to mention the spontaneous emergence of life…
is the most humiliating embarrassment to the proponents of naturalism and the whole so-called “scientific establishment” around it… because it undermines the worldview
of who wants naturalism to be true.

Conclusion:
Upon the logic of mutual exclusion, design and non-design are mutually exclusive (it was one or the other) so we can use eliminative logic: if non-design is highly
improbable, then design is highly probable. The evaluative status of non-design (and thus design) can be decreased or increased by observable empirical evidence, so
a theory of design is empirically responsive and is testable, so, by applying Bayesian probability, we can conclude that Life is most probably intelligently designed.
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#35
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being
Moderator Notice
If you post one more link in violation of the rules I WILL suspend your posting privileges
Dying to live, living to die.
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#36
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being
(November 20, 2019 at 2:50 pm)Otangelo Wrote: <much snipped for mercy>
No scientific experiment has been able to come even close to synthesize the basic building blocks of life, and reproduce a  self-replicating Cell in the Laboratory through self-assembly and autonomous organization.

Science has been playing around with this in labs for only ~60 years. Nature's had a planet sized laboratory and billions of years.
It's amazing 'science' always seems to 'find' whatever it is funded for, and never the oppsite. Drich.
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#37
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being
(November 20, 2019 at 2:52 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote:
Moderator Notice
If you post one more link in violation of the rules I WILL suspend your posting privileges

Facebook is not your friend. 

Bay.
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#38
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being
(November 20, 2019 at 12:01 pm)Otangelo Wrote: Being cannot come from Non-being

There is consensus in science that the universe most probably had a beginning. If the cosmos had no beginning, then there would have had to be an infinite series of past events. However, it is impossible to traverse an actual infinite. Therefore, the universe cannot be infinitely old. Besides that, If the cosmos was infinitely old, it would have reached maximum entropy a long, long, time ago. Since it has not reached maximum entropy, it cannot be infinitely old without violating the second law of thermodynamics. Although physicists such as Krauss and Hawking talk about "the universe creating itself from nothing," they are using the word "nothing" to mean the vacuum energy, which is not a true nothing. To be more precise, being cannot emerge from non-being.  If the entire cosmos came from something, that thing must transcend our cosmos, that is, it must exist beyond the limits of our space/time continuum. We may call it the First Cause. The creator must be a self-existing power. He is not created; He is eternal.   He is the One who brought time, space, and matter into existence.  Since the concept of causality deals with space, time, and matter, and since God is the one who brought space, time, and matter into existence, the concept of causality does not apply to God since it is something related to the reality of space, time, and matter. The cause of the universe must have been non-material because if the cause was material/natural, it would be subject to the same laws of decay as the universe. That means it would have to have had a beginning itself and you have the same problem as cycles of births and deaths of universes. So the cause of the universe’s beginning must have been supernatural, i.e. non-material or spirit—a cause outside of space-matter-time. Such a cause would not be subject to the law of decay and so would not have a beginning. That is, the cause had to be an eternal spirit.

Nothing you put there leads to the bolded part.



You can fix ignorance, you can't fix stupid.

Tinkety Tonk and down with the Nazis.




 








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#39
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being
(November 20, 2019 at 2:50 pm)Otangelo Wrote: , we can conclude that Life is most probably intelligently designed.

If it is intelligently designed then why is it so badly designed? Why do so many babies die because they have flawed DNA and get born deformed or without organs and they die quickly?

Why do so many people have flawed eyes and must wear glasses to see? Why are human back so weak for bipedal walking so they get pains in the back? Not to mention hemorrhoids for the same reasons. Why are testicles in humans outside and therefore uncomfortable and vulnerable? Not the evidence of intelligent designer.
teachings of the Bible are so muddled and self-contradictory that it was possible for Christians to happily burn heretics alive for five long centuries. It was even possible for the most venerated patriarchs of the Church, like St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas, to conclude that heretics should be tortured (Augustine) or killed outright (Aquinas). Martin Luther and John Calvin advocated the wholesale murder of heretics, apostates, Jews, and witches. - Sam Harris, "Letter To A Christian Nation"
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#40
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being
(November 20, 2019 at 3:00 pm)Otangelo Wrote:
(November 20, 2019 at 2:52 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote:
Moderator Notice
If you post one more link in violation of the rules I WILL suspend your posting privileges

Facebook is not your friend. 

Bay.

Which is why I don’t use FB.

But the rules here ARE your friends if you abide by them.

If you don’t you get removed.
Dying to live, living to die.
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