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Protests in Zagreb
#1
Protests in Zagreb
So, what do you guys here think about the massive protests that New York Times is reporting are going on in Zagreb?
https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2019/11...trike.html
https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2019/11...trike.html
I am in Osijek, 174 miles from Zagreb, and I am having a hard time believing the protests are as massive as New York Times claims. But I don't have the time to go to Zagreb to see for myself.
Those protests are organized by public unions, and they are primarily demanding higher wages for teachers. Do you think that's a good idea?
Well, I agree with the mainstream Croatian media that it isn't. The government shouldn't comply to the requests of the public sector. We need to ask ourselves where that money would come from. In all likelihood, that would mean that the Croatian government would go further in debt. Or increase the already-too-high taxes. Perhaps both.
Also, I think it might be a better idea to pay all the teachers who teach some subject equally, and not according to their "merits". Right now, those who teach history of music or history of art generally have the same wage as those who teach mathematics or foreign languages. I don't think it's fair, it's way harder to teach mathematics or foreign languages than to teach art. I also think that paying teachers according to their "merits" is a deeply flawed system. Because what that actually means is paying those teachers, whose students succeed better on competitions, more. I don't think that's a good idea. When students succeed on competitions, it's not the teachers who have done the hard work, it's the students who have done the hard work.
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#2
RE: Protests in Zagreb
You also contest that the battle of Vulkovar happened. Because you weren't born at the time. Time is to you reel back to how much great you are for making a simple expression compiler.
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#3
RE: Protests in Zagreb
(November 28, 2019 at 5:46 am)FlatAssembler Wrote: So, what do you guys here think about the massive protests that New York Times is reporting are going on in Zagreb?
https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2019/11...trike.html
https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2019/11...trike.html
I am in Osijek, 174 miles from Zagreb, and I am having a hard time believing the protests are as massive as New York Times claims. But I don't have the time to go to Zagreb to see for myself.
Those protests are organized by public unions, and they are primarily demanding higher wages for teachers. Do you think that's a good idea?
Well, I agree with the mainstream Croatian media that it isn't. The government shouldn't comply to the requests of the public sector. We need to ask ourselves where that money would come from. In all likelihood, that would mean that the Croatian government would go further in debt. Or increase the already-too-high taxes. Perhaps both.
Also, I think it might be a better idea to pay all the teachers who teach some subject equally, and not according to their "merits". Right now, those who teach history of music or history of art generally have the same wage as those who teach mathematics or foreign languages. I don't think it's fair, it's way harder to teach mathematics or foreign languages than to teach art. I also think that paying teachers according to their "merits" is a deeply flawed system. Because what that actually means is paying those teachers, whose students succeed better on competitions, more. I don't think that's a good idea. When students succeed on competitions, it's not the teachers who have done the hard work, it's the students who have done the hard work.

Well, it certainly seems to be true, according to local news and...whaddyacallit…photographic evidence.

https://www.total-croatia-news.com/polit...g-teachers

Sorry, 'the government shouldn't comply to the requests of the public sector'?  The public sector is employed by the government - who else is there to comply?  What the teachers are asking for is a 6.11% increase, to bring them into parity with the rest of the public sector, and 6.11% isn't going to wreck the Croatian economy.

Paying all teachers of the same subject equally is a pretty daft idea.  Suppose Teacher A and Teacher B (I normally name the people in my hypotheticals, but I don't know any Croatian names) both teach history.  Teacher A spends time crafting lesson plans, works with students who are struggling, and generally engages the class in the material.  Teacher B lets the students read comic books while he naps at his desk.  They should both be paid the same?

Boru
'A man is accepted into a church for what he believes.  He is turned out for what he knows.' - Mark Twain
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#4
RE: Protests in Zagreb
(November 28, 2019 at 6:43 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:
(November 28, 2019 at 5:46 am)FlatAssembler Wrote: So, what do you guys here think about the massive protests that New York Times is reporting are going on in Zagreb?
https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2019/11...trike.html
https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2019/11...trike.html
I am in Osijek, 174 miles from Zagreb, and I am having a hard time believing the protests are as massive as New York Times claims. But I don't have the time to go to Zagreb to see for myself.
Those protests are organized by public unions, and they are primarily demanding higher wages for teachers. Do you think that's a good idea?
Well, I agree with the mainstream Croatian media that it isn't. The government shouldn't comply to the requests of the public sector. We need to ask ourselves where that money would come from. In all likelihood, that would mean that the Croatian government would go further in debt. Or increase the already-too-high taxes. Perhaps both.
Also, I think it might be a better idea to pay all the teachers who teach some subject equally, and not according to their "merits". Right now, those who teach history of music or history of art generally have the same wage as those who teach mathematics or foreign languages. I don't think it's fair, it's way harder to teach mathematics or foreign languages than to teach art. I also think that paying teachers according to their "merits" is a deeply flawed system. Because what that actually means is paying those teachers, whose students succeed better on competitions, more. I don't think that's a good idea. When students succeed on competitions, it's not the teachers who have done the hard work, it's the students who have done the hard work.

Well, it certainly seems to be true, according to local news and...whaddyacallit…photographic evidence.

https://www.total-croatia-news.com/polit...g-teachers

Sorry, 'the government shouldn't comply to the requests of the public sector'?  The public sector is employed by the government - who else is there to comply?  What the teachers are asking for is a 6.11% increase, to bring them into parity with the rest of the public sector, and 6.11% isn't going to wreck the Croatian economy.

Paying all teachers of the same subject equally is a pretty daft idea.  Suppose Teacher A and Teacher B (I normally name the people in my hypotheticals, but I don't know any Croatian names) both teach history.  Teacher A spends time crafting lesson plans, works with students who are struggling, and generally engages the class in the material.  Teacher B lets the students read comic books while he naps at his desk.  They should both be paid the same?

Boru

True story. I spent most of my time barely awake in my math classes, so when the teacher struggled to get me flunked (sp?) I did excellent in national exams, I smelt like cow shit, true, one never knows reality until getting hit by a tail of piss and shit por pull a calf out bare handed. Oh so many times and my grandma always rewarded me. Sure I smelt like shit in highschol. the teachers learnt a lesson.
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#5
RE: Protests in Zagreb
(November 28, 2019 at 7:02 am)LastPoet Wrote:
(November 28, 2019 at 6:43 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Well, it certainly seems to be true, according to local news and...whaddyacallit…photographic evidence.

https://www.total-croatia-news.com/polit...g-teachers

Sorry, 'the government shouldn't comply to the requests of the public sector'?  The public sector is employed by the government - who else is there to comply?  What the teachers are asking for is a 6.11% increase, to bring them into parity with the rest of the public sector, and 6.11% isn't going to wreck the Croatian economy.

Paying all teachers of the same subject equally is a pretty daft idea.  Suppose Teacher A and Teacher B (I normally name the people in my hypotheticals, but I don't know any Croatian names) both teach history.  Teacher A spends time crafting lesson plans, works with students who are struggling, and generally engages the class in the material.  Teacher B lets the students read comic books while he naps at his desk.  They should both be paid the same?

Boru

True story. I spent most of my time barely awake in my math classes, so when the teacher struggled to get me flunked (sp?) I did excellent in national exams, I smelt like cow shit, true, one never knows reality until getting hit by a tail of piss and shit por pull a calf out bare handed. Oh so many times and my grandma always rewarded me. Sure I smelt like shit in highschol. the teachers learnt a lesson.

I got in more than one punch up in school for that farm smell.  Stitchers Carson thought it was the height of wit to call me 'Pigmuck' instead of 'Patrick'.  Then he had the gall to repeatedly scrape my knuckles with his teeth.

Boru
'A man is accepted into a church for what he believes.  He is turned out for what he knows.' - Mark Twain
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#6
RE: Protests in Zagreb
BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:Sorry, 'the government shouldn't comply to the requests of the public sector'?  The public sector is employed by the government - who else is there to comply? 
Well, a democratic government should comply to the will of the people. Complying to the will of the big business or, even worse, to a will of the public unions, is corruption.
BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:What the teachers are asking for is a 6.11% increase, to bring them into parity with the rest of the public sector, and 6.11% isn't going to wreck the Croatian economy.
6.11% is a compromise proposed by Andrej Plenković, the prime minister of Croatia. The leader of the protesters, Branimir Mihalinec, asks for 11% increase.
BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:Teacher B lets the students read comic books while he naps at his desk.
If somebody is unwilling to work, he should probably be fired.
BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:They should both be paid the same?
My point is that it's, in many cases, hard to figure out how well a teacher works. If a teacher has a student who does well on competitions, that doesn't actually mean the teacher is a good teacher. And pretending that it does has bad consequences. When I was in high-school, a few teachers were sending me to competitions without giving me any special instructions for that competition. You are simply stuck between a rock and a hard place in that situation: if you refuse to go onto that competition, the teacher may refuse to give you good marks. If you go onto that competition, and you don't spend nights studying for those competitions, you will embarrass yourself there. And, if you do study nights for that competition and you succeed at it, your teacher, who didn't help you much, will get a pay raise.
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#7
RE: Protests in Zagreb
Quote:6.11% is a compromise proposed by Andrej Plenković, the prime minister of Croatia. The leader of the protesters, Branimir Mihalinec, asks for 11% increase.

Not according to the article I linked.  Did you read it?

Quote:Over 20,000 teachers from throughout Croatia gathered in Zagreb's main square Trg Bana Jelačića at noon on Monday to demand a 6.11% increase of job complexity indices, carrying banners saying "All we want for Xmas is 6.11", "This is not a strike, this is a reform" and "Striking for life."

The 6.11% is what the union asked for.  The government offered 2%.

Boru
'A man is accepted into a church for what he believes.  He is turned out for what he knows.' - Mark Twain
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#8
RE: Protests in Zagreb
(November 28, 2019 at 10:01 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:
Quote:6.11% is a compromise proposed by Andrej Plenković, the prime minister of Croatia. The leader of the protesters, Branimir Mihalinec, asks for 11% increase.

Not according to the article I linked.  Did you read it?

Quote:Over 20,000 teachers from throughout Croatia gathered in Zagreb's main square Trg Bana Jelačića at noon on Monday to demand a 6.11% increase of job complexity indices, carrying banners saying "All we want for Xmas is 6.11", "This is not a strike, this is a reform" and "Striking for life."

The 6.11% is what the union asked for.  The government offered 2%.

Boru

I don't know now, I am taking most of my information about those kinds of stuff from TPortal. Guess if they don't agree on the details, they are mostly making stuff up.
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#9
RE: Protests in Zagreb
(November 28, 2019 at 11:26 am)FlatAssembler Wrote: I don't know now, I am taking most of my information about those kinds of stuff from TPortal. Guess if they don't agree on the details, they are mostly making stuff up.

I suppose you have the right to have an opinion and you should vote if you're able. Find information from varied sources, make your choices as a citizen.
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#10
RE: Protests in Zagreb
If I was in Zagreb I’d be protesting too.
Sanity adjacent.


Angel





IMGUR 
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