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[Quranic Reflection]: Magic
#11
RE: [Quranic Reflection]: Magic
(December 29, 2019 at 9:37 am)Gae Bolga Wrote:
(December 29, 2019 at 4:25 am)jbob40919 Wrote: I cannot remember if it was Solomon who consulted with witches..black magic!

Solomon was a witch.  Or so the story goes.

Anywho, Atlas, magic book is recounting their version of a story in old magic book, wherein moses throws down what's in his hand, and it turns into an even more powerful bit of magic that eats the others.  This story was explicitly derived from egyptian mythology (as a polemic against egyptian mythology).  It's of pre-roman origin.  It's also a wonderful example of precisely what I just explained to you.  Their magic is bullshit, our bullshit is magic.

Back when people still openly believed in magic, any given religion had to have the greater magic than it's competitors.  Imagine if McDonalds ran advertising that went- "Big Macs, almost as good as Whoppers!".  Can't see it, can you?

How you say it is "magic" even though the verse in the Quran explicitly said that Moses -peace be upon him- wasn't a magician, is beyond me:

Quote:Sura 20, The Quran:

https://quran.ksu.edu.sa/index.php?l=en#...rans=en_sh

( 69 )   And throw what is in your right hand; it will swallow up what they have crafted. What they have crafted is but the trick of a magician, and the magician will not succeed wherever he is."

I mean wow..just wow.
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#12
RE: [Quranic Reflection]: Magic
(December 29, 2019 at 10:28 am)AtlasS33 Wrote:
(December 29, 2019 at 9:37 am)Gae Bolga Wrote: Solomon was a witch.  Or so the story goes.

Anywho, Atlas, magic book is recounting their version of a story in old magic book, wherein moses throws down what's in his hand, and it turns into an even more powerful bit of magic that eats the others.  This story was explicitly derived from egyptian mythology (as a polemic against egyptian mythology).  It's of pre-roman origin.  It's also a wonderful example of precisely what I just explained to you.  Their magic is bullshit, our bullshit is magic.

Back when people still openly believed in magic, any given religion had to have the greater magic than it's competitors.  Imagine if McDonalds ran advertising that went- "Big Macs, almost as good as Whoppers!".  Can't see it, can you?

How you say it is "magic" even though the verse in the Quran explicitly said that Moses -peace be upon him- wasn't a magician, is beyond me:
Because it is magic. You can call it a miracle all you like. it's just the same as magic. The normal rules are suspended for the duration of the magic (or miracle). They are one and the same. Calling magic a "miracle" does not change what happened in any way. Labelling things does not change their nature. It's just a fucking label.


(December 29, 2019 at 10:28 am)AtlasS33 Wrote:
Quote:Sura 20, The Quran:

https://quran.ksu.edu.sa/index.php?l=en#...rans=en_sh

( 69 )   And throw what is in your right hand; it will swallow up what they have crafted. What they have crafted is but the trick of a magician, and the magician will not succeed wherever he is."
Who cares what your book of magic says? Really?

(December 29, 2019 at 10:28 am)AtlasS33 Wrote: I mean wow..just wow.
Yeah, wow that you really are that gullible. It's a little sad. Until one realises that you want it. You dont believe it because it is true, or has evidence to back it up, or anything. You simply want it to be true.
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#13
RE: [Quranic Reflection]: Magic
(December 29, 2019 at 11:24 am)jbob40919 Wrote:
(December 29, 2019 at 9:37 am)Gae Bolga Wrote: I am still a bit confused. Was it Samuel or Saul who consulted with witches?

Who cares? It's all make believe so it doesn't really matter.

(December 29, 2019 at 11:24 am)jbob40919 Wrote:
(December 29, 2019 at 9:37 am)Gae Bolga Wrote: I am still a bit confused. Was it Samuel or Saul who consulted with witches?

Who cares? It's all make believe so it doesn't really matter.
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#14
RE: [Quranic Reflection]: Magic
Atlas, I have a Quran bound in pig leather.
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#15
RE: [Quranic Reflection]: Magic
I think it is more important to understand what Aleister Crowley had to say about magic:

”Two strangers sat down opposite each other in a railway carriage. One of the men had on his lap a cardboard box with holes in the top. After some time wondering what might be inside it, the second man said, “Excuse me, but I couldn’t help noticing your box. Does it contain an animal?”

The first man smiled politely. “Yes, a mongoose.”

“A mongoose? Where are you going with that?"

“Ah,” the first man replied, “My sister has terrible dreams. She sees snakes everywhere. I'm taking her the mongoose so it can scare them off."

“But how can that work,” the second man said, “Those are imaginary snakes?”

“Indeed,” his fellow traveler replied. “Which is why this,” and here he lifted the top and tilted it to show an empty box, "is an imaginary mongoose.”
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#16
RE: [Quranic Reflection]: Magic
It's funny how the discussion turned from a "Quranic Reflection" into a "Biblical Reflection".
I remind the reader again: the Quran -Islam's source book- described magic as:

Quote:Sura 20, The Quran:
https://quran.ksu.edu.sa/index.php?l=en#...rans=en_sh

( 69 )   And throw what is in your right hand; it will swallow up what they have crafted. What they have crafted is but the trick of a magician, and the magician will not succeed wherever he is."

The OP is about the Quran; not the bible.

(December 29, 2019 at 11:08 am)Abaddon_ire Wrote:
(December 29, 2019 at 10:28 am)AtlasS33 Wrote: How you say it is "magic" even though the verse in the Quran explicitly said that Moses -peace be upon him- wasn't a magician, is beyond me:
Because it is magic. You can call it a miracle all you like. it's just the same as magic. The normal rules are suspended for the duration of the magic (or miracle). They are one and the same. Calling magic a "miracle" does not change what happened in any way. Labelling things does not change their nature. It's just a fucking label.


Who cares what your book of magic says? Really?
No it is not. With its own admission actually:
Quote:Sura 13, The Quran:
https://quran.com/13/31
Dr. Ghali

(31) And if there had been a Qur'an whereby the mountains were made to travel or the earth were cut up (into pieces) or the dead were spoken to-no indeed, to Allah is the Command altogether. Have the ones who have believed then not learned (Literally: despaired "of human efforts") that, if Allah decided, He would indeed have guided mankind altogether? And a smiler will not cease afflicting the ones who have disbelieved for what they have worked, (i.e., what they have done) or it (i.e., the punishment) alights near their residence until the promise of Allah comes up to them. Surely Allah does not fail His promised appointment.

It's not a magic book, Please don't repeat the argument because it will be very silly; especially after seeing verses like the one above.

As for it being a "miracle"; the above verse also tells you that there is no such thing, this book can't be used to move mountains or cast spells -even if the Shamans of the Sunni/Shiite institutions lied to you and told you so-.

Quote:Yeah, wow that you really are that gullible. It's a little sad. Until one realises that you want it. You dont believe it because it is true, or has evidence to back it up, or anything. You simply want it to be true.

Believe me; one of the main reasons that keep me hanging to Islam and the Quran -and of course their God- is the grim truth of the universe when you remove God from the equation.
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#17
RE: [Quranic Reflection]: Magic
Are you saying JK Rowling isn't the prophet of the Ministry of Magic?
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#18
RE: [Quranic Reflection]: Magic
(December 29, 2019 at 10:50 pm)no one Wrote: Are you saying JK Rowling isn't the prophet of the Ministry of Magic?

No, a propagandist for he who shall not be named.
Dying to live, living to die.
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#19
RE: [Quranic Reflection]: Magic
(December 29, 2019 at 10:01 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote: It's not a magic book, Please don't repeat the argument because it will be very silly; especially after seeing verses like the one above.

You're right. If it was a magic book it'd be interesting and useful.

As it is I couldn't care less what your book of nonsense says.
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#20
RE: [Quranic Reflection]: Magic
Atlas..lol..... the part of your magic book that you quoted is telling a story from old magic book, about how their magic beat the other guys magic.
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