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[Quranic Reflection]: Magic
#31
RE: [Quranic Reflection]: Magic
(December 30, 2019 at 9:38 am)Gae Bolga Wrote:
(December 30, 2019 at 2:02 am)AtlasS33 Wrote: Not really, since the Quran and the Roman-bible are quite independent.

What do you mean not really you fucking loon?  Your magic book is recounting the story of moses and his magical duel with the egyptian wizards.  That's not exactly and independent narrative, lol.

Yes; it is.
The Quran tells the story of "Moses the prophet", with direct and explicit verses saying that Moses wasn't a magician, and that the Egyptian wizards performed fake trickery to fool people.

Magic only exists in the head of gullible people like yourself. Please read the OP again to realize the difference.
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#32
RE: [Quranic Reflection]: Magic
-and yet moses threw down a staff that turned into a snake and ate the other staff snakes.

What's the problem? You believe in magic. Lean in. All this hand wringing about how your borrowed magic books magic isn't magic just makes you and islam look ridiculous.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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#33
RE: [Quranic Reflection]: Magic
(December 31, 2019 at 5:09 am)Gae Bolga Wrote: -and yet moses threw down a staff that turned into a snake and ate the other staff snakes.

Yes, his staff turned to a real snake, capable of swallowing the fake instruments used to trick the crowd.
Unless you have another credible interpretation for the Quranic explicit verse in the OP:


Quote:Sura 20, The Quran:
https://quran.ksu.edu.sa/index.php?l=en#...rans=en_sh

( 69 )   And throw what is in your right hand; it will swallow up what they have crafted. What they have crafted is but the trick of a magician, and the magician will not succeed wherever he is."

Please answer that; and I mean the verse, especially the part where God said:

What they have crafted is but the trick of a magician, and the magician will not succeed wherever he is."
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#34
RE: [Quranic Reflection]: Magic
Their magic is bullshit, our bullshit is magic.

It's a testament to how effectively doubt and non-belief is creeping into you religious lot when you can't confidently state that you believe in the magic that your magic book is full of.

When it makes you feel silly.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Reply
#35
RE: [Quranic Reflection]: Magic
(December 31, 2019 at 5:19 am)Gae Bolga Wrote: Their magic is bullshit, our bullshit is magic.

It's a testament to how effectively doubt and non-belief is creeping into you religious lot when you can't confidently state that you believe in the magic that your magic book is full of.  

When it makes you feel silly.

No. You must refute this statement in the Quran first:

Quote:Sura 20, The Quran:
https://quran.ksu.edu.sa/index.php?l=en#...rans=en_sh

( 69 )   And throw what is in your right hand; it will swallow up what they have crafted. What they have crafted is but the trick of a magician, and the magician will not succeed wherever he is."

What Moses -peace be upon him- did is admitted by the Quran not to be "magic".
Also the handy verse described the holy magicians of Egypt to commit "trickery".

It's ironic that a magic book would describe magic tricks to be a trick. And exposes the truth of magic to be "and the magician will not succeed wherever he is."

I tell you what. The real magic book is the Hadith. There you will find another language that suits your claims. But it doesn't work with the Quran; since it condemned magic to be "a fake trick".
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#36
RE: [Quranic Reflection]: Magic
It condemned one of two magic tricks as fake. Like I said, it's sad that you...a believing muslim.... feel silly enough about believing in magic to make this thread, to post the things that you have.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Reply
#37
RE: [Quranic Reflection]: Magic
(December 31, 2019 at 5:43 am)Gae Bolga Wrote: It condemned one of two magic tricks as fake.  Like I said, it's sad that you...a believing muslim.... feel silly enough about believing in magic to make this thread, to post the things that you have.

Well, he didnt feel silly enough to post everything else he posted, did he?
But yeah, its utterly mindboggling, that first he claims the supernatural (god) exists, but rejects the deeds of his god as being equally supernatural.
Cetero censeo religionem delendam esse
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#38
RE: [Quranic Reflection]: Magic
Just as an fyi, there's actually a story behind that story that's absolutely fascinating. If you ever wanted to do some actual "quranic reflection".

The wizard duel and the plagues...exodus....had nothing to do with any moses who threw down any staff.

It's the narrative product of post exile jewish literature heavily influenced by the misconceptions babylonians had about egyptian religion. Set in the 1200s or before, it describes, instead, a polemic against the main gods of egypt as they were known in the fifth century - part of the period in which these stories were constructed. The oldest extant (partial) manuscripts of the story in question are no older than the even later hellenistic period from 321-30ishbc.

As it's understood, this was the foundation legend of a particular people, the levites..who, after becoming the priestly class, incorporated their tribal narrative as the backbone of a national myth meant to eulogize an Isreal that had never existed, and that what detail had existed, and was recounted in their magic book (and then..lol, faithfully, in yours) was typical of a much later date in time. This is a running problem of the entire old testament. The authors simply could not remember, or even imagine, factual period appropriate details for a kindgom that did not exist when it was claimed to have.

What they did, instead, was to imagine a society much like their own transported into the past as that national foundation myth, above, on a resurgent wave of hope for a new israel in diaspora. It was precisely this element of judaism that created the messianic sects which would give birth to christianity, and through christianity, islam. That's the great dripping irony of the middle east, at present. Without the myth of israel...there would be no islam.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Reply
#39
RE: [Quranic Reflection]: Magic
(December 31, 2019 at 6:25 am)Gae Bolga Wrote: Just as an fyi, there's actu...

So your answer is a wall of text that has nothing to do with the OP..
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#40
RE: [Quranic Reflection]: Magic
You respect magic book even less than I do. Clap
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Reply



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