God as a non-creator

[Fake Messiah]

You have all seen (and will see more of them in future) topics desperately trying to distort science of evolution, genetics, archaeology, and whatnot, to fit God in somwhere.

So perhaps this topic is trying to meet theists half way there - so to speak.

Let me remind theists first that evolution does not equal atheism. It may debunk creator gods like Yahweh and Allah, and Jesus because his godliness depends on Adam's existence (but then it's not just evolution that is problematic, but also archaeology that shows there's no garden of Eden; genetics that shows there were never just two humans in the past, Google earth because we can't see the firewall around the forbidden tree, etc.) But there were other gods that were not considered creators like Alexander the Great, Julius Caesar, Sai Baba...

So if someone is honest in their search for God (as theists claim to be) then why not use science to find God instead of distorting, dismissing and ignoring science that debunks God that you want to believe in? After all there is no definition of God so he doesn't have to be a creator.

If science shows you some God is implausible then why not dump that God and try to find some other that could be scientifically plausible - or, put in other words, find some other god that science cannot debunk?

[Brian37]

You have all seen (and will see more of them in future) topics desperately trying to distort science of evolution, genetics, archaeology, and whatnot, to fit God in somwhere.

So perhaps this topic is trying to meet theists half way there - so to speak.

Let me remind theists first that evolution does not equal atheism. It may debunk creator gods like Yahweh and Allah, and Jesus because his godliness depends on Adam's existence (but then it's not just evolution that is problematic, but also archaeology that shows there's no garden of Eden; genetics that shows there were never just two humans in the past, Google earth because we can't see the firewall around the forbidden tree, etc.) But there were other gods that were not considered creators like Alexander the Great, Julius Caesar, Sai Baba...

So if someone is honest in their search for God (as theists claim to be) then why not use science to find God instead of distorting, dismissing and ignoring science that debunks God that you want to believe in? After all there is no definition of God so he doesn't have to be a creator.

If science shows you some God is implausible then why not dump that God and try to find some other that could be scientifically plausible - or, put in other words, find some other god that science cannot debunk?

Better yet, the theists needs to consider that claims of supernatural beings are merely a reflection of our own species attributes, desires, narcissism? 

How about the theist consider their god belief is merely like a cat, dog or deer confusing a reflection in a mirror or glass as something separate than it's own reflection?

[no one]

You're forgetting the power of, "But, Muh Huly Buuk". The allure of eternal life, the promise of paradise and reuniting with long lost loved ones certainly conquers the notion and quells the fear that when you're dead, you are dead.

[WinterHold]

First of all, science is not the property of non-believers. It's so sad to hear such speech; especially after knowing that modern Chemistry, the  "Algorithm" and the numerous discoveries such as "Alcohol" all came from the Islamic theist civilization.


That put aside:

So if someone is honest in their search for God (as theists claim to be) then why not use science to find God instead of distorting, dismissing and ignoring science that debunks God that you want to believe in? After all there is no definition of God so he doesn't have to be a creator.

If science shows you some God is implausible then why not dump that God and try to find some other that could be scientifically plausible - or, put in other words, find some other god that science cannot debunk?

Theists are human beings with brains that think, interpret, come up with theories, get bored, give commands, but most importantly: choose.

I choose -for example- to be a Muslim. Your idea of the universe "initiating itself" does not suit me. I find it childish, I find it...disgusting sometimes, when I look at the universe I come out with a different opinion than yours.

I don't believe what you believe. Sorry, but I find it...void. Empty..does not make sense.

So what's your problem with this ? I never write "Jihadi anti-theist keyboard Jihad" asking obsessively why people who believe different things actually believe in different things !

This obsessive behavior cause wars, death, and I saw enough of them. Don't start about Muslim vs Muslim killing; but start about Chinese communist killing of Muslims or Indian Hindu government killing Muslims for a change.

Grow up.

[The Grand Nudger]

Did any of those discoveries come from praying to the moongod?

Messiah has a point that can't be wished away by calling things disgusting, imagining what other people believe....that you don't, or whining that somebody is killing muslims somewhere.

It's a sad fact of contemporary belief that the people with the most vested interest in taking their god seriously will not or cannot do so. You've volunteered numerous examples of this on the board, and do so above as well. Did anyone ask you to imagine a void universe, or anything empty? No. You were asked whether or not you were capable of conceiving of a god that does not contradict facts. That does not need apology. A god that you would not sacrifice on the altar of a magic book. It didn't create us, because we weren't created, but it's still a god.

Can you do that....?

[WinterHold]

Did any of those discoveries come from praying to the moongod?

Messiah has a point that can't be wished away by calling things disgusting, imagining what other people believe....that you don't, or whining that somebody is killing muslims somewhere.

It's a sad fact of contemporary belief that the people with the most vested interest in taking their god seriously will not or cannot do so.  You've volunteered numerous examples of this on the board, and do so above as well.  Did anyone ask you to imagine a void universe, or anything empty?  No.  You were asked whether or not you were capable of conceiving of a god that does not contradict facts.  That does not need apology.  A god that you would not sacrifice on the altar of a magic book.  It didn't create us, because we weren't created, but it's still a god.

Can you do that....?

Viewing other faiths as "a no-no" is a fact of life each and every human must take; it's called "personal opinion" and you're a hypocrite if you claim you don't view my faith -just like I view yours- a no-no.

You have your faith, I have mine, end of story. What comes next is me not killing you over it, and for you to do the exact same.

It's not a surprise; life is full of different opinions, thus we should collaborate to build something good, not escalate things leading each other to war over it.

Can you do that, too ?

And yes; non-believers claim that no God wanted to cover humanity with his mercy.
Non-believers ignore the question about "what was before" the big bang; theists say otherwise.

I believe in one of the claims about "the otherwise".
What's the big deal ?

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Non-believers ignore the question about "what was before" the big bang; theists say otherwise

It isn’t so much that we ‘ignore’ it, we simply recognize it as a non-sensical non-question.  It’s like asking ‘What colour is seventeen?’ or ‘How fast is Tuesday?’

Boru

[WinterHold]

Non-believers ignore the question about "what was before" the big bang; theists say otherwise

It isn’t so much that we ‘ignore’ it, we simply recognize it as a non-sensical non-question.  It’s like asking ‘What colour is seventeen?’ or ‘How fast is Tuesday?’

Boru

Something more advanced must have triggered the big bang -as I personally believe-.
We just can't understand what was behind due to our limited minds and methods.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

It isn’t so much that we ‘ignore’ it, we simply recognize it as a non-sensical non-question.  It’s like asking ‘What colour is seventeen?’ or ‘How fast is Tuesday?’

Boru

Something more advanced must have triggered the big bang -as I personally believe-.
We just can't understand what was behind due to our limited minds and methods.

Your personal beliefs are immaterial. ‘Before the Big Bang’ is a nonsense phrase.

Boru

[The Grand Nudger]

Looks like a hard no, you can't do that. You would prefer a god with fantasy attributes to a god that existed without them.