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A 'proof' of God's existence - free will
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That getting bogged down in asserted god facts, such as a specific description of a god, is irrelevant. The argument asserts facts about free will as the compelling set of propositions. Free will facts, not god facts.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
 (April 28, 2020 at 2:14 am)cleansed Wrote: If God did not exist, there could be no free will since everything would determined by natural processes that started at the beginning of the Universe. If the Universe could be rewound and set in motion at the same point once again it would unfold in exactly the same way every single time. So no matter what I do I will always do what I have been predetermined to do. I could try to somehow work against it but of course that was predetermined as well. How do you know we have free will ? Quote:Because God created the Universe, Unsupported assertion Quote:and God is transcendent of the material world, Unsupported assertion Quote:He can give His creatures the ability to make meaningful choices. Unsupported assertion Quote: Their behavior is no longer solely determined by the initial conditions of the Universe, because God is also influencing their behavior. Unsupported assertion Quote:If they are predetermined by the Universe to like vanilla ice cream for instance, God can influence them in such a way as to prefer chocolate ice cream. Unsupported assertion Quote:Human beings also have a spiritual nature which transcends material reality because they possess a soul and a spirit. Unsupported assertion Quote:These are additional influences which feed into the choices that they make. Unsupported assertion Quote:They are influenced not just by the material world, but also the spiritual world and the creatures in it. Unsupported assertion Quote:So, human behavior could never be predicted by material science only. Even if you knew and understood everything about the initial conditions of the Universe you would still be unable to accurately predict human behavior. Unsupported assertion Do you see now why we ask for evidence of the god of your choice ?
'Those who ask a lot of questions may seem stupid, but those who don't ask questions stay stupid'
RE: A 'proof' of God's existence - free will
May 8, 2020 at 3:56 am
(This post was last modified: May 8, 2020 at 4:13 am by The Grand Nudger.)
Damaging assertions, too. If man is a creature that can be predetermined to like vanilla, but god-flipped to chocolate, and is also under the influence of this or that other thing that goes bump in the night...and all of that is piled on top of whatever compulsions the material world necessitates...then man is in no sense a creature with a free will.
Even if the existence of free will could suggest that a god exists, this description of man suggests that free will doesn't. The argument is DOA. A bad argument, but an honest belief. A belief that's honestly paradoxical. Insisting in some theologically important and existent free will while contending that man is a victim of a fate decided by forces and entities exterior to himself, beyond his control, and even beyond his comprehension. This is the literal antithesis of metaphysical freedom. It fails to satisfy the even lower bar of circumstantial freedom ala deterministic compatibilism. What we have, instead, is the supernatural machine turning out malleable human automatons. It appears that we remain the clay golems we were created to be.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
 (May 8, 2020 at 3:56 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Damaging assertions, too. If man is a creature that can be predetermined to like vanilla, but god-flipped to chocolate, and is also under the influence of this or that other thing that goes bump in the night...and all of that is piled on top of whatever compulsions the material world necessitates...then man is in no sense a creature with a free will. ![[Image: Gg3Ak.png]](https://puu.sh/Gg3Ak.png)
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself — and you are the easiest person to fool." - Richard P. Feynman
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