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One clear, precise prophecy of Muhammad.. among many
RE: One clear, precise prophecy of Muhammad.. among many
(May 21, 2020 at 1:49 am)Paleophyte Wrote:
(May 15, 2020 at 5:45 pm)Klorophyll Wrote: that you will find barefooted, destitute goat-herds vying with one another in the construction of magnificent buildings.

This is neither clear nor precise.

"barefooted, destitute goat-herds" could refer to any of a huge range of people, including Jews, Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, Taoists, etc. The only requirements are that they be poor, barefoot, and herd goats. Based on your "Muhammed was speaking to savage bumpkins" line of argument we could easily include the Aztec, Inca, and the Myans by virtue of the fact that one cannot expect Muhammed's audience to know what an alpaca is.

Why do you equate "magnificent" with tall? Compensating for some short-comings? This term is neither clear nor precise and indicates only that the building is impressive in some aspect.

Clearly this prophecy refers to the Inca and Machu Picchu. Or was it the Ming Dynasty and the Forbidden City? Perhaps Moshe Aviv Tower?

A clear and precise prophecy would have read something like: "Your descendants shall become wealthy beyond your imagination (well, some of them) and 1200 years hence they shall build an enormous city on the shores of the ocean as far to the east of Hajr (Riyadh) as Medina is to the west where today there is naught but a caravan station. And in this city they shall build a tower unto the heavens 500 times taller than a man, with a magnificent fountain at its base with waters that shall leap into the air 30 times higher than the tallest man."

See, even I can manage to explain that to the primitives that your Prophet hoodwinked. The only word they might have trouble with in that is "fountain".
He will also bring up Camels but i point out those have been exported everywhere . He will also talking about competing but again that's been going on forever with grand buildings . So nothing clear at all
“The sun from far gives life. But get close to it and it burns anything down to ashes”

[Image: flag-ukraine_1f1fa-1f1e6.png]  Heart [Image: canada-google.png]        

 “No matter what men think, abortion is a fact of life. Women have always had them; they always have and they always will. Are they going to have good ones or bad ones? Will the good ones be reserved for the rich, while the poor women go to quacks?”
–SHIRLEY CHISHOLM


      
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RE: One clear, precise prophecy of Muhammad.. among many
(May 21, 2020 at 4:39 pm)SUNGULA Wrote:
(May 21, 2020 at 1:49 am)Paleophyte Wrote: This is neither clear nor precise.

"barefooted, destitute goat-herds" could refer to any of a huge range of people, including Jews, Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, Taoists, etc. The only requirements are that they be poor, barefoot, and herd goats. Based on your "Muhammed was speaking to savage bumpkins" line of argument we could easily include the Aztec, Inca, and the Myans by virtue of the fact that one cannot expect Muhammed's audience to know what an alpaca is.

Why do you equate "magnificent" with tall? Compensating for some short-comings? This term is neither clear nor precise and indicates only that the building is impressive in some aspect.

Clearly this prophecy refers to the Inca and Machu Picchu. Or was it the Ming Dynasty and the Forbidden City? Perhaps Moshe Aviv Tower?

A clear and precise prophecy would have read something like: "Your descendants shall become wealthy beyond your imagination (well, some of them) and 1200 years hence they shall build an enormous city on the shores of the ocean as far to the east of Hajr (Riyadh) as Medina is to the west where today there is naught but a caravan station. And in this city they shall build a tower unto the heavens 500 times taller than a man, with a magnificent fountain at its base with waters that shall leap into the air 30 times higher than the tallest man."

See, even I can manage to explain that to the primitives that your Prophet hoodwinked. The only word they might have trouble with in that is "fountain".
He will also bring up Camels but i point out those have been exported everywhere . He will also talking about competing but again that's been going on forever with grand buildings . So nothing clear at all
Also Mo could have brought up the building were made of metal and glass . He could have replaced shepherds with wealthy merchants who draw their wealth from beneath the sands as oils black as night . Or described modern cities with chariots that moved without horses or chariots that could fly. So mant details he could have added that WOULD be understandable to people back then 

Same goes for he plague 

He could have distinguished it from the one Moses summoned on Egypt . He could have could have mentioned it was the plague that ravaged the lands of Justinian . He could have mentioned the symptoms . He would still be wrong of course because by dictionary definition Cholera is a plague 


Quote:plague is a very infectious disease that spreads quickly and kills large numbers of people.
 And i don't care if Klor rejects dictionary definitions out of convenience . IT'S A VALID DEFINITION !
“The sun from far gives life. But get close to it and it burns anything down to ashes”

[Image: flag-ukraine_1f1fa-1f1e6.png]  Heart [Image: canada-google.png]        

 “No matter what men think, abortion is a fact of life. Women have always had them; they always have and they always will. Are they going to have good ones or bad ones? Will the good ones be reserved for the rich, while the poor women go to quacks?”
–SHIRLEY CHISHOLM


      
Reply
RE: One clear, precise prophecy of Muhammad.. among many
Muslims: How could a 7th-century man have known all the amazing things found in the Quran?! It is a scientific miracle and clearly comes from none other than Allah!

Quran: Stars are missiles thrown at rebellious devil spies who try to sneak up to listen to Allah's high assembly!
teachings of the Bible are so muddled and self-contradictory that it was possible for Christians to happily burn heretics alive for five long centuries. It was even possible for the most venerated patriarchs of the Church, like St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas, to conclude that heretics should be tortured (Augustine) or killed outright (Aquinas). Martin Luther and John Calvin advocated the wholesale murder of heretics, apostates, Jews, and witches. - Sam Harris, "Letter To A Christian Nation"
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RE: One clear, precise prophecy of Muhammad.. among many
(May 23, 2020 at 10:27 pm)Fake Messiah Wrote: Muslims: How could a 7th-century man have known all the amazing things found in the Quran?! It is a scientific miracle and clearly comes from none other than Allah!

Quran: Stars are missiles thrown at rebellious devil spies who try to sneak up to listen to Allah's high assembly!

What a moronic objection! It's as if the ideal book of god , as atheists imagine it, should've contained some modern science expressed with the same nomenclature invented by salient beings.

Atheists usually just want God to be like themselves; to forgive everyone after a while, they also want God to use their own conventions and, of course, discover science for them!
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RE: One clear, precise prophecy of Muhammad.. among many
Quote:What a moronic objection!
No it's not 


Quote: It's as if the ideal book of god , as atheists imagine it, should've contained some modern science expressed with the same nomenclature invented by salient beings.
No it should contain good descriptions and unvage language but there is nothing stopping a god from doing this and expressing it in universal terms . But it's funny that this isn't really an objection just personnel displeasure . 


Quote:Atheists usually just want God to be like themselves

Or actually be good at describing things he's trying to explain without being vague . But funny enough you're good sounds like a reflection of you and why shouldn't god more like us ? Again is isn't really an objection just personnel displeasure


Quote:to forgive everyone after a while, they also want God to use their own conventions and, of course, discover science for them!
Or to actually use actual good descriptions but again i see no reason a god couldn't and also be capable of making it universally understandable , And that last sentence is a cop out for you books failures .

So far your argument is I DON"T LIKE THAT !! OR IT FIT MY DOGMA SO IT"S DUMB!!!
“The sun from far gives life. But get close to it and it burns anything down to ashes”

[Image: flag-ukraine_1f1fa-1f1e6.png]  Heart [Image: canada-google.png]        

 “No matter what men think, abortion is a fact of life. Women have always had them; they always have and they always will. Are they going to have good ones or bad ones? Will the good ones be reserved for the rich, while the poor women go to quacks?”
–SHIRLEY CHISHOLM


      
Reply
RE: One clear, precise prophecy of Muhammad.. among many
(May 15, 2020 at 5:45 pm)Klorophyll Wrote: What follows is quoted from Sahih Muslim, one the most renowned collections of authentic hadiths; 

He (the enquirer) again said: Inform me about the hour (of the Doom). He (the Holy Prophet) remarked: One who is asked knows no more than the one who is inquiring (about it). He (the inquirer) said: Tell me some of its indications. He (the Holy Prophet) said: That the slave-girl will give birth to her mistress and master, that you will find barefooted, destitute goat-herds vying with one another in the construction of magnificent buildings. [Source : https://sunnah.com/muslim/1/1]

'Barefooted, destitute goat-herds' incontrovertibly refers to inhabitants of any country in the Arabian peninsula. These folks, according to Muhammad, will compete with each other about building the tallest skyscrapers. The Arabic equivalent of "vying with one another", tatawala' تطاول is more expressive, being derived from the word toul' طول literally meaning length. The reader can easily check the accuracy of these translations. Muhammad clearly referred to buildings, guaranteeing that this prophecy can't be misinterpreted in any other way.

Muhammad's prophecy came true in the modern era, there are many skyscrapers in numerous countries belonging to the Arab league:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ta...rab_League.

Now let's hear our dear skeptics complaining of the vagueness of Muhammad's prophecies ; Lalala

One objection to this is it's not a remarkable prophecy to fulfill. Even if somewhere down the road, this eventually was fulfilled, so what? There's nothing divine about it.
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RE: One clear, precise prophecy of Muhammad.. among many
(July 6, 2020 at 6:37 pm)Klorophyll Wrote:
(May 23, 2020 at 10:27 pm)Fake Messiah Wrote: Muslims: How could a 7th-century man have known all the amazing things found in the Quran?! It is a scientific miracle and clearly comes from none other than Allah!

Quran: Stars are missiles thrown at rebellious devil spies who try to sneak up to listen to Allah's high assembly!

What a moronic objection! It's as if the ideal book of god , as atheists imagine it, should've contained some modern science expressed with the same nomenclature invented by salient beings.

Atheists usually just want God to be like themselves; to forgive everyone after a while, they also want God to use their own conventions and, of course, discover science for them!

Bla Bla
I don't have an anger problem, I have an idiot problem




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RE: One clear, precise prophecy of Muhammad.. among many
Pretty sure the people building those buildings are professional builders, not destitute goat herders. I hope the OP isn't trying to say the people of the Arab world are destitute goat herders by definition.
I'm not anti-Christian. I'm anti-stupid.
Reply
RE: One clear, precise prophecy of Muhammad.. among many
(July 6, 2020 at 6:37 pm)Klorophyll Wrote:
(May 23, 2020 at 10:27 pm)Fake Messiah Wrote: Muslims: How could a 7th-century man have known all the amazing things found in the Quran?! It is a scientific miracle and clearly comes from none other than Allah!

Quran: Stars are missiles thrown at rebellious devil spies who try to sneak up to listen to Allah's high assembly!

What a moronic objection! It's as if the ideal book of god , as atheists imagine it, should've contained some modern science expressed with the same nomenclature invented by salient beings.

Atheists usually just want God to be like themselves; to forgive everyone after a while, they also want God to use their own conventions and, of course, discover science for them!

From what I've noticed Muslims are usually very insecure about Islam, which is why they're frustrated and quickly resort to hostile behavior when questioned. When confronted with the right questions, Islam falls apart, because it relies on strong indoctrination and fear, not on education.
teachings of the Bible are so muddled and self-contradictory that it was possible for Christians to happily burn heretics alive for five long centuries. It was even possible for the most venerated patriarchs of the Church, like St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas, to conclude that heretics should be tortured (Augustine) or killed outright (Aquinas). Martin Luther and John Calvin advocated the wholesale murder of heretics, apostates, Jews, and witches. - Sam Harris, "Letter To A Christian Nation"
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