So with that 

I propose the unbelievers the winners and this ridiculous  thread over fairytales dead 

Do i hear a second

No can do.

Logan's Run is a very good novel, a quick read that offers more substance than the movie.  The youth rebellion of the 1960's leads to a solution to overpopulation and the father knows best generation.

Also, the movie included Farrah Fawcett who far out shined the girl who played Jessica.

(May 17, 2020 at 11:37 am)Klorophyll Wrote: Bring one example of a plague pandemic [not viral pandemic like COVID-19 or other types of pandemic] that once happened in Medinah and you will successfully destroy Islam!

I'll wait.

If we had ham we could have ham and eggs, if we had eggs.

(May 17, 2020 at 3:50 pm)arewethereyet Wrote:

(May 17, 2020 at 3:36 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: “How dare people interpret the book using the words that are in the book! Obviously it means something other than what it obviously means, or else it’d be wrong!”

Don't wait for a response.

Klorophorm doesn't interact with the wimminz.

That is a spectacular nick name, lol.

(May 17, 2020 at 4:32 pm)Klorophyll Wrote:

(May 17, 2020 at 3:50 pm)arewethereyet Wrote: Don't wait for a response.

Klorophorm doesn't interact with the wimminz.

Why wouldn't I ? They just tend not to say anything relevant.... just like men, no misogyny intended.

Irrelevant. Like this OP.

(May 18, 2020 at 1:14 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote:

(May 17, 2020 at 4:32 pm)Klorophyll Wrote: Why wouldn't I ? They just tend not to say anything relevant.... just like men, no misogyny intended.

Irrelevant. Like this OP.

Amazing that he can opine that women tend not to say anything relevant and in the same breath insist he’s not being misogynistic.

Be fair - that’s pretty fucking impressive.

Boru

(May 15, 2020 at 5:45 pm)Klorophyll Wrote: that you will find barefooted, destitute goat-herds vying with one another in the construction of magnificent buildings.

This is neither clear nor precise.

"barefooted, destitute goat-herds" could refer to any of a huge range of people, including Jews, Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, Taoists, etc. The only requirements are that they be poor, barefoot, and herd goats. Based on your "Muhammed was speaking to savage bumpkins" line of argument we could easily include the Aztec, Inca, and the Myans by virtue of the fact that one cannot expect Muhammed's audience to know what an alpaca is.

Why do you equate "magnificent" with tall? Compensating for some short-comings? This term is neither clear nor precise and indicates only that the building is impressive in some aspect.

Clearly this prophecy refers to the Inca and Machu Picchu. Or was it the Ming Dynasty and the Forbidden City? Perhaps Moshe Aviv Tower?

A clear and precise prophecy would have read something like: "Your descendants shall become wealthy beyond your imagination (well, some of them) and 1200 years hence they shall build an enormous city on the shores of the ocean as far to the east of Hajr (Riyadh) as Medina is to the west where today there is naught but a caravan station. And in this city they shall build a tower unto the heavens 500 times taller than a man, with a magnificent fountain at its base with waters that shall leap into the air 30 times higher than the tallest man."

See, even I can manage to explain that to the primitives that your Prophet hoodwinked. The only word they might have trouble with in that is "fountain".

(May 21, 2020 at 1:49 am)Paleophyte Wrote:

(May 15, 2020 at 5:45 pm)Klorophyll Wrote: that you will find barefooted, destitute goat-herds vying with one another in the construction of magnificent buildings.

This is neither clear nor precise.

"barefooted, destitute goat-herds" could refer to any of a huge range of people, including Jews, Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, Taoists, etc. The only requirements are that they be poor, barefoot, and herd goats. Based on your "Muhammed was speaking to savage bumpkins" line of argument we could easily include the Aztec, Inca, and the Myans by virtue of the fact that one cannot expect Muhammed's audience to know what an alpaca is.

Why do you equate "magnificent" with tall? Compensating for some short-comings? This term is neither clear nor precise and indicates only that the building is impressive in some aspect.

Clearly this prophecy refers to the Inca and Machu Picchu. Or was it the Ming Dynasty and the Forbidden City? Perhaps Moshe Aviv Tower?

A clear and precise prophecy would have read something like: "Your descendants shall become wealthy beyond your imagination (well, some of them) and 1200 years hence they shall build an enormous city on the shores of the ocean as far to the east of Hajr (Riyadh) as Medina is to the west where today there is naught but a caravan station. And in this city they shall build a tower unto the heavens 500 times taller than a man, with a magnificent fountain at its base with waters that shall leap into the air 30 times higher than the tallest man."

See, even I can manage to explain that to the primitives that your Prophet hoodwinked. The only word they might have trouble with in that is "fountain".

It would be easy to inspire words that had meaning to the people living in time of prophecy, even the fountains could have something like 'water rose up into the air for decoration'' and it could have also mentioned how they became wealthy for instance from ''a black liquid from the ground that many sought and was worth much money''

---

(May 17, 2020 at 3:36 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote:

(May 15, 2020 at 6:24 pm)Klorophyll Wrote: Are you really that stupid, guys ?

Muhammad was talking to people who lived fourteen centuries ago, they had no idea what "governments and corporations" would mean, had Muhammad used these terms. Muhammad's contemporaries know what herding and goats mean, they didn't know much about corporations and embassies. So the expression "barefoot destitute goat herds" merely refers to the geographical area where his prediction is supposed to happen, because, obviously, nobody builds things while barefoot.

It's really stupid to try and interpret the words "barefoot" and "destitute" literally, even more so when thay are attempts of translation from their more expressive equivalents in Arabic.

“How dare people interpret the book using the words that are in the book! Obviously it means something other than what it obviously means, or else it’d be wrong!”

The clear meaning is the the very unclear interpretation .. clearly

Nah, it's about my neighbors. They're both building sheds. Yet another quranic miracle.

(May 15, 2020 at 5:45 pm)Klorophyll Wrote: What follows is quoted from Sahih Muslim, one the most renowned collections of authentic hadiths; 

He (the enquirer) again said: Inform me about the hour (of the Doom). He (the Holy Prophet) remarked: One who is asked knows no more than the one who is inquiring (about it). He (the inquirer) said: Tell me some of its indications. He (the Holy Prophet) said: That the slave-girl will give birth to her mistress and master, that you will find barefooted, destitute goat-herds vying with one another in the construction of magnificent buildings. [Source : https://sunnah.com/muslim/1/1]

'Barefooted, destitute goat-herds' incontrovertibly refers to inhabitants of any country in the Arabian peninsula. These folks, according to Muhammad, will compete with each other about building the tallest skyscrapers. The Arabic equivalent of "vying with one another", tatawala' تطاول is more expressive, being derived from the word toul' طول literally meaning length. The reader can easily check the accuracy of these translations. Muhammad clearly referred to buildings, guaranteeing that this prophecy can't be misinterpreted in any other way.

Muhammad's prophecy came true in the modern era, there are many skyscrapers in numerous countries belonging to the Arab league:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ta...rab_League.

Now let's hear our dear skeptics complaining of the vagueness of Muhammad's prophecies ;

Well, if you see that as clear and concise, then the basic problem you are having is clear.

Can you explain *why* we should interpret 'barefoot, destitute goat-herds' geographically, as opposed to literally? it seems pretty *clear* to me that is NOT the meaning of that phrase.

And, let's face it, barefoot, destitute people were used to build *most* ancient buildings. The typical workforce was both barefoot and destitute. Many were probably goat-herds when not building.

In other words, I would bet that this 'prophecy' would have applied much better to much of the building of Baghdad in the 8th century (or before) than it does to any modern society.

So, either clear and wrong or unclear and meaningless. You choose.