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RE: God Exists
May 31, 2020 at 2:30 am
(This post was last modified: May 31, 2020 at 2:31 am by brokenreflector.)
(May 31, 2020 at 2:24 am)arewethereyet Wrote: What is there to defend?
Atheism.
Quote:Atheists don't believe in a god or gods.
I know and you apparently don't have any good reasons for this belief. Also, your atheism renders the second explanation in my original post logically incoherent. This leaves you with two logically incoherent explanations for the origin of all things. In other words, if you want to remain a rational person, then you should abandon atheism.
Quote:Pretty elementary stuff there. And why would we feel the need to defend anything to you?
Then don't.
What's wrong with WLC again?
(May 31, 2020 at 2:27 am)no one Wrote: Atheism doesn't need to be defended, asshat.
Calm down man. No need to get emotional and insulting. If you're unable to provide rational reasons for atheism, then that's OK. Just stop posting.
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RE: God Exists
May 31, 2020 at 2:32 am
(May 31, 2020 at 2:19 am)brokenreflector Wrote: (May 31, 2020 at 2:05 am)arewethereyet Wrote: New guy - BrokenRecord - leads with William Lane Craig.
Surely many will be converted.
What's wrong with William Lane Craig? And why hasn't anyone in this thread been able to cogently defend atheism?
I've never read anything by Craig, so I can't say from personal knowledge. The reason I haven't been motivated to read him, though, is because he uses the Kalam argument, which so far has never appealed to me.
I don't think that a First Cause argument that uses a temporal procession is going to persuade anybody. I don't find it persuasive, from what I know of it.
You probably know, both Aristotle and Thomas Aquinas specifically rejected a temporal First Cause. Aristotle thought the world had no beginning, and Thomas thought that it was a matter of faith, from scripture, that there was a beginning, but that this couldn't be demonstrated.
Their First Cause argument is much more persuasive to me, and I have yet to find any scientific argument that knocks it down.
As you know, this is an essential chain rather than a temporal one.
I wouldn't be mean and say that Lawrence Krauss was dishonest, exactly, when he wrote his book in total ignorance of this argument. But if anybody is going to claim he's defeated an argument he probably ought to know what he's talking about.
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RE: God Exists
May 31, 2020 at 2:32 am
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RE: God Exists
May 31, 2020 at 2:33 am
What fresh hell can this be? - Dorothy Parker
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RE: God Exists
May 31, 2020 at 2:33 am
He's a lying piece of shit, for starters.
He preys on those that are even more mentally inept than himself.
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RE: God Exists
May 31, 2020 at 2:37 am
(May 31, 2020 at 2:32 am)brokenreflector Wrote: (May 31, 2020 at 2:22 am)Peebo-Thuhlu Wrote: What's wrong with William Lane Craig? And why hasn't anyone in this thread been able to cogently defend atheism?
Nothing?
He has a very 'Classical' nose?  
Where in any of your opening posts did you posit anything about Atheism?
Cheers.
I'm starting to think this a troll website where the same person is posting under multiple accounts.
Uhm.. okay?
This thread has taken a turn for the strange. Though my time of giving creedence to Brokenreflector is certainly comming to a middle.
Cheers.
Not at work.
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RE: God Exists
May 31, 2020 at 2:43 am
(This post was last modified: May 31, 2020 at 2:55 am by purplepurpose.)
Jesus didn't argue for the most part. He endured hell and died for his ideals instead of sitting on his ass arguing. Go earn some money, help the poor and show atheists what's Jesus is about. Just like Jesus did, suffer for great ideals.
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RE: God Exists
May 31, 2020 at 2:54 am
(This post was last modified: May 31, 2020 at 2:56 am by brokenreflector.)
(May 31, 2020 at 2:33 am)no one Wrote: He's a lying piece of shit, for starters.
He preys on those that are even more mentally inept than himself.
What did WLC lie about?
What's with the anger btw?
(May 31, 2020 at 2:43 am)purplepurpose Wrote: Jesus didn't argue for the most part. He endured hell and died for his ideals instead of sitting on his ass arguing. Go earn some money, help the poor and show atheists what's Jesus is about. Just like Jesus did, suffer for great ideals. But who needs that when you can masturbate here on whatever God exists.
Jesus didn't argue? That's wrong.
And you don't know who I've helped.
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RE: God Exists
May 31, 2020 at 3:07 am
(This post was last modified: May 31, 2020 at 3:08 am by Fake Messiah.)
(May 31, 2020 at 2:30 am)brokenreflector Wrote: Also, your atheism renders the second explanation in my original post logically incoherent. This leaves you with two logically incoherent explanations for the origin of all things.
Actually it is you who has failed to prove that your God exists. Even at the best outcome for you that God created the universe, it tells us nothing in particular about this alleged god-being. There is certainly nothing about Christian theology in the argument; this god could exist but yet be the Muslim god or one of the Hindu gods or a Greek or Norse or Native American or any other god, or it could be an impersonal energy or the devil. In fact, it does not even insist that this god exists now but that it existed at the beginning. It does not prove there is a god today, and nor can it prove there is a god like the Theists, let alone the Christians, envision.
To make matters even worse for you are advances in our scientific understanding of the world have thrown the very notion of cause into question. Particularly the discovery of the quantum nature of subatomic reality has substituted a statistical probability view of events for the old familiar deterministic or 'causal' one. ln other words, where it has been traditionally argued that some prior condition A is necessary and sufficient for (the 'cause' of) event B, quantum physics shows us, with great predictive accuracy, that no particular prior condition is either necessary or sufficient for some physical events such as radioactive decay, the behavior of electrons and photons, and potentially for the appearance of the physical universe itself out of a background of quantum fluctuations. As physicist Victor Stenger has stated, "In the quantum world ... things can simply happen ... I have shown that directional causality, or causal precedence, is in fact a classical, macroscopic concept that does not apply at the fundamental level of elementary particle interactions, where fundamental interactions make no distinction between cause and effect". In such a view of reality, a 'cause' is neither always adequate to explain an event — even the big event.
teachings of the Bible are so muddled and self-contradictory that it was possible for Christians to happily burn heretics alive for five long centuries. It was even possible for the most venerated patriarchs of the Church, like St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas, to conclude that heretics should be tortured (Augustine) or killed outright (Aquinas). Martin Luther and John Calvin advocated the wholesale murder of heretics, apostates, Jews, and witches. - Sam Harris, "Letter To A Christian Nation"
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RE: God Exists
May 31, 2020 at 4:05 am
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