Blexit Campaign - Black Exit from the US Democratic Party

[GrandizerII]

I agree that the idea of black victimhood is not going to help black people.  I absolutely hate the concept of "white privilege", as if being white is the reason I got ahead in the world, and not the fact that I got an education and worked hard.  That teaches black people that the reason they haven't succeeded yet is only because of their skin color, which will never inspire them to do what I did.

That's not what any reasonable person is saying, though. You've misunderstood the whole thing about privilege.

Privilege doesn't mean that any success you've achieved cannot partly be attributed to the fact that you've worked hard to get where you're at. It means that there are certain hurdles (like skin color or sex) that won't ever get in your way to success. If you're black, you have to deal with those hurdles and work harder to achieve success (statistically speaking). If you're white, lucky!

It also doesn't mean that if you lack some type of privilege, then if you haven't succeeded, it must only be because you lacked that privilege.

[Sal]

Privilege is just a fancy way of saying lucky circumstance.

[The Architect Of Fate]

I agree that the idea of black victimhood is not going to help black people.  I absolutely hate the concept of "white privilege", as if being white is the reason I got ahead in the world, and not the fact that I got an education and worked hard.  That teaches black people that the reason they haven't succeeded yet is only because of their skin color, which will never inspire them to do what I did.

That's not what any reasonable person is saying, though. You've misunderstood the whole thing about privilege.

Privilege doesn't mean that any success you've achieved cannot partly be attributed to the fact that you've worked hard to get where you're at. It means that there are certain hurdles (like skin color or sex) that won't ever get in your way to success. If you're black, you have to deal with those hurdles and work harder to achieve success (statistically speaking). If you're white, lucky!

It also doesn't mean that if you lack some type of privilege, then if you haven't succeeded, it must only be because you lacked that privilege.

Indeed 

[The Grand Nudger]

A lucky circumstance would be standing in the exact spot that $100 fell to earth in. Privilege took centuries to build and requires constant social maintenance.

[HappySkeptic]

I agree that the idea of black victimhood is not going to help black people.  I absolutely hate the concept of "white privilege", as if being white is the reason I got ahead in the world, and not the fact that I got an education and worked hard.  That teaches black people that the reason they haven't succeeded yet is only because of their skin color, which will never inspire them to do what I did.

That's not what any reasonable person is saying, though. You've misunderstood the whole thing about privilege.

Privilege doesn't mean that any success you've achieved cannot partly be attributed to the fact that you've worked hard to get where you're at. It means that there are certain hurdles (like skin color or sex) that won't ever get in your way to success. If you're black, you have to deal with those hurdles and work harder to achieve success (statistically speaking). If you're white, lucky!

It also doesn't mean that if you lack some type of privilege, then if you haven't succeeded, it must only be because you lacked that privilege.

The word "privilege" implies an undeserved advantage.  Its not like someone gives me stuff because I'm white.  My parents didn't give me a trust fund, buy my entrance to college, or introduce me to their rich friends who game a leg up.  I lived in a small bungalow in a small town, with only one parent working.  I worked every summer to pay tuition.

I prefer to focus on individual justice.  Make schooling affordable for all.  Make healthcare available to all.  Allow each person the ability, regardless of background, to have the opportunity to achieve things through good choices and hard work.

I accept that some people are disadvantaged, and have not experienced the justice I mention in the above paragraph.  But, that isn't just about race.  I just won't accept that I am "privileged" because of my skin color, either as a political attempt to create guilt, or an excuse as to why someone else hasn't made it.

Now, I am privileged to live in an industrially advanced country, where democracy, the rule of law, and relative freedom exist.  I definitely benefit by that through no act of my own.  If some others don't, then shame on the system, but don't make it all about race (BTW I don't live in the U.S., and I don't care what race anyone is. What generation of immigrant has a far larger effect than race, at least here)

[Sal]

A lucky circumstance would be standing in the exact spot that $100 fell to earth in. Privilege took centuries to build and requires constant social maintenance.

No one chose any of their privileges, they're innate to their persons and environment. But it sounds like you're eluding to inheritance and social standing, and not qualities anyone had a say in.

By all means, we should improve upon what we get, are able to do and where we are socially, it just won't be done by deriding innate qualities, because those are merely the starting conditions.

[The Grand Nudger]

While I understand what I think you mean, we maintain our privileges, both for ourselves and for our children. It might not be entirely accurate to say that we don't choose them. They didn't fall out of the sky like the $100 of providence referenced. Similarly, they are not innate qualities of a person.

I bring these things up, because alot of the objections in discussions about privilege seem to be people arguing about other things, or calling privilege some other (less objectionable/less culpable) thing. It's not luck, it's not circumstance or a starting condition, and it has nothing to do with a persons qualities whatsoever. In US terms (because privilege is specific to culture), it's the broad advantage conferred by centuries of white supremacy...currently ongoing, to an imaginary white race - which people are rather arbitrarily assigned to or perceived to be a member of.

[Sal]

Do you mean that privilege is tied with culture? Then why not just call it that then, that there are cultural impositions such as excluding people from job interviews due to systemic racism? Sounds to me like privilege is doing a lot more lifting than what I understand it as.

I define 'privilege' as innate advantages, such as (inherited) wealth, genetic lottery, gender and skin color, etc.. You know, initial conditions in their environment and their personal characteristics that they had no say in. However, I have no problem with broadening the meaning to encompass actions within cultural norms, nepotism, systemic advantages based on ideological differences (such as "race", gender, education, etc.)

[The Grand Nudger]

We use particular terms to describe things with greater precision, to differentiate them from things which are similar, but not quite the same.

There certainly are cultural impositions which do alot of lifting. One of them is privilege, which is an advantage like wealth is an advantage..but you can be wealthy without being a member of whatever group your culture privileges and you can lack wealth even if you are. Privilege is often asserted along perceived racial lines, but is not a genetic assessment in any way.

As privilege is an imposition, it does not depend in any way on a persons invidual circumstances - what is and is not privileged varies. We are not privileged because we happen to have been born in the white™ group, for example, but because our culture actively privileges it. Privilege has nothing to do with anything innate to you, or to anyone else.

Privilege apologetics has everything to do with claims of innate this and thats. Innateness and innate things being more defensible and less objectionable than privilege.

[Sal]

That makes more sense.