Do things happen for a reason?

[Rhizomorph13]

ME: Yes, and even if you hold a worldview that there is a wonderful afterlife that would be MORE of a reason to snuff it early!

Well, no because there are conditions.
But yeah I agree with everything else you said. It doesn't make it any less sadder. The whole thing seems so pointless, I can't wrap my head around how wasteful it all is.

Unless there aren't conditions, 'cause you don't really know if you are correct or whatever really.

I get where you are coming from, I was religious from 12 to about 23 with bouts of varying degrees of religiousness until I turned 30 when I went agnostic/theist with no particular bent then full atheist with additional discussion on this board. I am a Shiite Atheist now.

[polymath257]

It seems to me that Shazz is not comfortable among a group of atheists.  I'm not sure of the reason for coming here, but it obviously didn't turn out as planned.

If the answers given to questions were all god-based, I think Shazz would be happier.

Perhaps a theist forum is a better choice.

This is far more interesting. I've learned a few things.

---

Shazza, let me put it this way.
You're on a golf course. The odds of hitting a particular blade of grass 300 yards away is trillions to one.
You hit the ball. It lands on a blade of grass 300 yards away. Not the one you chose. But nonetheless, the one you landed on was also a trillions to one shot and you got it!

My point is, trying to connect dots to find special meaning in circumstances is a fool's game. You could waste you life joining dots all day long for the rest of your life.
Shit happens all day long, even fun or bad co-incidental things ..Don't read anything into anything. You'll end up like the dude from "A Beautiful Mind".

Another eg: someone's girlfriend's car broke down and asked you to pick her up. On your way, someone isn't paying attention and slams into your car.
You are injured, taken to hospital, as a precaution, they give you a cat scan. They find a tiny tumor on your brain. They operate and remove it successfully.
The doctor said if they hadn't found it, the tumor was in a part of the brain that in years to come it would have been inoperable and it would have killed you.

Now Shazza, it's tempting to join dots here. But there's really nothing to see. Move along. Nothing spooky happening, No angels, or demons or unicorns or faeries are making things happen. Shit just happens. Sometimes these things are convenient, sometimes they're not.... Wishing for an agent to be involved in your life isn't going to "poof" a god into existence for you...

Conspiracy theories are created for the same reasons they create God. Some people just like to feel that "someone" is in control. Whether it's because you gave birth to an autistic baby 6 months after getting your flu shot or because the neighbor's house got torn down by a hurricane a week after the asshole blocked your driveway with his truck.
 
The universe doesn't revolve around any of us... We're not that special...seriously.

THEN WHATS THE POINT OF LIVING?? Why do we care so much when people die?? We should just be able to accept it and move on because it happens to everybody. If our lives mean nothing then why is it worth living? Wouldn't it be less exhausting to just cease to exist? (because apparently that's what happens when we die   ) Why have children when you know they're going to die anyway?

---

https://islamqa.info/en

A theist forum will give me answers I'm more familiar with. I want to see outside my box.

And that is a very good sign. Searching for other viewpoints will, at the very least, make you more well rounded as a person and more understanding of where
others come from.

You ask what the point is of living. I find life to be very enjoyable: I love to learn, to experience new things, to interact with my friends, and to snuggle with my wife. I like to think about physics and math. These are the things I live for.

We care about it when people die because we lose their input into our lives. And, given how important interaction is for us humans, that is a big deal.

You  seem to think that our lives 'mean nothing' unless there is a God and we live forever. I have personally never understood either position. Our lives are precious *because*
we don't live forever. They have meaning because of how we relate to others and help others through this wonderful ride called life. No deity required.

You seem to focus on death, which is one of the hallmarks of certain religions. I prefer to focus on life: what warmth and light can I bring during this short period where my candle burns?

If you consider life to be exhausting, imagine how horrible it must be to live forever! The ultimate lack of existence seems like a blessing to me. But that doesn't detract from that flare of beauty that can be had during life.

For those that have children, the children gain that precious gift of life. They can live out their time, finding their purpose and meaning as they see fit.

The fact that we all die doesn't mean life has no value. In fact, quite the opposite. Living forever would make life valueless and a torture.

[Deesse23]

Why do you think things (bad or good) happen?

Because humans exist.
Without humans, things would happen.

[Mister Agenda]

THEN WHATS THE POINT OF LIVING?? Why do we care so much when people die?? We should just be able to accept it and move on because it happens to everybody. If our lives mean nothing then why is it worth living? Wouldn't it be less exhausting to just cease to exist? (because apparently that's what happens when we die   ) Why have children when you know they're going to die anyway?

---

https://islamqa.info/en

A theist forum will give me answers I'm more familiar with. I want to see outside my box.

First of all, I admire your willingness to explore outside your comfort zone, Shazza. It's admirable and hard and to be encouraged.

Something can only have meaning to a being that is capable of deriving meaning from things. That is us and to some degree, certain animals. The point of living is whatever point we want it to have, because we are the ones who assign 'the point'. To me the point is to learn, love, grow, and try to leave things a little better than I found them. And argue on the internet.

We, along with certain other animals, are capable of feeling loss and grief when a loved one dies. In fact, we're capable of feeling those things when we lose a job, get rejected, and so on. Evolutionarily speaking, those emotions motivate us to avoid those situations: keep the loved one alive, keep the job, get accepted, and so on. We're usually better off minimizing our losses and the bad feelings teach us to hold on to the good things we have as long as we can. Those good things help us survive.

As far as 'why go on', this seems to be the only area where people invoke 'if it's not permanent, it's pointless'. The conclusion doesn't follow from the premise and there are many counter-examples. You wouldn't want to watch a movie that had no ending or eat a dinner that went on forever. My life has a beginning, a middle, and it will have an end. Without an end, my life would never really be complete. And I can't imagine anything that would make my life more pointless than it just being a prelude to an eternal existence compared to which it becomes more and more insignificant as the eons drag on. In fifty million years how significant would be the point of the several dozen years at the beginning be compared to the fifty million after?

In my opinion our lives have more meaning because they're all we've got.

---

ME: Yes, and even if you hold a worldview that there is a wonderful afterlife that would be MORE of a reason to snuff it early!

Well, no because there are conditions.
But yeah I agree with everything else you said. It doesn't make it any less sadder. The whole thing seems so pointless, I can't wrap my head around how wasteful it all is.

Funny story, the Catholic Church made suicide a mortal sin because they were having an issue with miserable parishioners getting in a hurry to reap their just rewards back in the Middle Ages.

Wastefulness is what we observe, though many of us want to be the exception. A vast universe and we may be the only civilization in our galaxy. Over 99% of all the species that have ever existed are extinct. But it makes even less sense if you think someone designed it that way. We are literally lucky to be alive; the odds against each of us were tremendous, the number of possible people is in the trillions and we got to be among the billions that actually exist. And for the most part, we get lives that are meaningful to us and worth living.

One thing that strikes me when someone loses their belief in God is how little they change. Often, if from a very religious background that included lots of opinions about atheists, they are surprised that they don't want to kill themselves or run amok. Often they were told that if they were an atheist they would have no reason not to rob and murder, but they find out they really don't want to rob and murder. They want to live and love like 99% of everybody does. Life isn't always good, but for most folks, the good outweighs the bad.

[Sal]

As far as 'why go on', this seems to be the only area where people invoke 'if it's not permanent, it's pointless'. The conclusion doesn't follow from the premise and there are many counter-examples. You wouldn't want to watch a movie that had no ending or eat a dinner that went on forever. My life has a beginning, a middle, and it will have an end. Without an end, my life would never really be complete. And I can't imagine anything that would make my life more pointless than it just being a prelude to an eternal existence compared to which it becomes more and more insignificant as the eons drag on. In fifty million years how significant would be the point of the several dozen years at the beginning be compared to the fifty million after?

Another perspective along those lines, which I saw brought up in a Youtube vid, was that if our lives continued forever, means any action could be postponed forever, because you would have an indefinite amount of time to do it in. Contrast this with a finite life; you only get a finite amount of time to do anything, which means you have to find time to whatever it is you want to do, lest it be too late.

[The Valkyrie]

Everything happens for a reason.

Those reasons are unlikely to be part of any plan.

[Anomalocaris]

Why do you think things (bad or good) happen?

Because it is the nature of the thing to happen when it happens.

[Alan V]

Everything. Every single event in history: deaths, births, murders, wars, marriages, people etc. Did it happen this way for a reason? I just find it interesting because we can't change history, so you're born into whatever you're born into, and I want to know why.

I think you are confusing reasons and causes. Everything may have a cause but not everything has a reason. Reasons assume a consciousness behind events capable of reasoning and acting on such reasoning. Theists typically think God has reasons for everything, although they can't demonstrate it. Atheists typically think people may or may not have reasons for doing what they do. Some atheists are determinists and believe even reasons are reducible to causes.

Your religious beliefs cause you to ask questions like this. There is no reason for atheists to adopt your assumptions.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Is there a reason >99.fuckingshitloadof9s% of the universe is hostile to humans?

[Anomalocaris]

Is there a reason >99.fuckingshitloadof9s% of the universe is hostile to humans?

If that is not proof For an eminently sensible, if imperfect god, I don’t know what would be.