[Serious] What God's justification for eternal torment?

[Sal]

If you find yourself unable to determine what is right because you lack the moral compass for it (your little notion of recusing yourself, as if it was some legality or something), then by what metric do you determine that god is good™?

Did the Germans have a moral compass when they slaughtered the Jews?

Yes.

People can do what they think is right or what they want to be right, but that doesn't make it right.

Gee, you think?

You bring up an important point, by what metric is good™ defined?  If there is no standard of right or wrong and we do as we see fit, there won't be much left to discuss except when differing opinions on what is good eventually clash.

Pathetic dodge. The question remains, as a follow-up from that you recuse (your word, not mine) from using any sense of morality to your faith. Again, without morality on what metric do you determine that god is good™?

[Confused-by-christianity]

I don't know if "God punishes people with eternal torment".

I've heard a lot of people say God is like that - but I'm not so sure.

[Foxaèr]

I don't know if "God punishes people with eternal torment".

I've heard a lot of people say God is like that - but I'm not so sure.

You're more than welcome to share your view. Not that it would hold much water for us atheists.

[The Grand Nudger]

I don't know if "God punishes people with eternal torment".

I've heard a lot of people say God is like that - but I'm not so sure.

It's not as if there would be any need, right?  He already punished us with pain and deprivation in life, then killed us.  

Kicking a corpse isn't bad in any definable way, it just seems silly and excessive. What do you think, are the imagined horrors of some world to come the real dilemma for a god, or is it the actual state of the world as we see it in life?

[Confused-by-christianity]

OK listen, I get that God has rules and all, but when it comes to punishment, why does God need to punish us with LITERAL FIRE? Why BURN BILLIONS of people as punishment for "not accepting my son" ? and Why for ETERNITY? That has to be the most fucked up thing imaginable, that to me is NOT of justice, NOT of love and certainty NOT righteous, if anything, its barbaric, its savagery, its inhumane, and most importantly, its EVIL. And don't say "No they actually do die a second time in the lake of fire" because that "holy" book of yours is filled with contradictions. God cannot deal with sinners in a civilized, and humane matter? Why not the punishment for not accepting god or Jesus be: You die in this life, thats it, no heaven.

I don't know if "God punishes people with eternal torment".

I've heard a lot of people say God is like that - but I'm not so sure.

You're more than welcome to share your view. Not that it would hold much water for us atheists.

I read the bible more like how I would listen to music.  Like a song.  

Freddie Mercury - Bohemian Rhapsody.  I can listen to the song and get meaning from it.  

Some people might read a transcript of the song and think - His mother didn't actually just kill a man, and how is it "his" trigger??  Freddie Mercury is a liar.

I think misunderstandings like this happen and people come out with ways to explain it - you end up with fire and brimstone???  

Maybe???

---

I don't know if "God punishes people with eternal torment".

I've heard a lot of people say God is like that - but I'm not so sure.

It's not as if there would be any need, right?  He already punished us with pain and deprivation in life, then killed us.  

Kicking a corpse isn't bad in any definable way, it just seems silly and excessive.  What do you think, are the imagined horrors of some world to come the real dilemma for a god, or is it the actual state of the world as we see it in life?

Maybe fear plays a large part in a lot of things that go wrong.

Fear has a use - it stops you doing really stupid things.  But it ought not rule over all our decisions or we are likely to come into trouble?

A faith based on fear of hell seems misguided to me.  

For one thing - when someone gives themselves to you out of fear, they don't really "love" you, it's coercion.  A God that only cares about the truth wouldn't want a coerced "love".  That's not love at all.

Perhaps the people who came up with this theology struggled with fear a lot themselves and created a whole theology based on it?  It is a great motivator - but lacks true staying power - so maybe they initially thought they were doing a good job, getting all these people in the door, only to find them leaving later on, or never really progressing spiritually ??

[The Grand Nudger]

I think fear plays a large part in a lot of things that go wrong.

Fear has a use - it stops you doing really stupid things.  But it ought not rule over all our decisions or we are likely to come into trouble?

A faith based on fear of hell seems misguided to me.  

Agreed.  The other side to that coin is that a faith based on hope is equally misguided.  Pay me tomorrow for a burger today?  Nope.

For one thing - when someone gives themselves to you out of fear, they don't really "love" you, it's coercion.  A God that only cares about the truth wouldn't want a coerced "love".  That's not love at all.

Ostensibly, it would know the difference - but if coercion is an issue it's an issue no matter what lever is being pulled to coerce.  Promises of pain or reward are equivalent in this regard even if we prefer one over the other and regardless of which is more effective.  A cursory glance at theology might suggest that despite any of us having reservations about fear based coercion and love™, it's the more effective strategy for the promulgation of superstition.

Perhaps the people who came up with this theology struggled with fear a lot themselves and created a whole theology based on fear?  It is a great motivator - but lacks true staying power haha

That's where we depart from agreement.  I see that fear based theologies have had immense staying power.  Maybe we think they shouldn't...but they do. We're creatures with an existential reality and a deep well of anxiety related to it - and because of this, betting on fear is never a particularly bad bet.

(I fucking -love- your handle, btw)

[Confused-by-christianity]

I'm screwing up the reply / quote system haha

[Confused-by-christianity]

(I fucking -love- your handle, btw)
[/quote]
Haha thanks man. Btw- struggling with quoting / reply thing (Newbie). Better answer later

[arewethereyet]

I'm screwing up the reply / quote system haha

I'm a master at it!

[Confused-by-christianity]

I'm screwing up the reply / quote system haha

I'm a master at it!

I wrote a few replies that looked like a monster ramble. Had to delete them haha