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The most stupid misconceptions about Islam
#31
RE: The most stupid misconceptions about Islam
(October 14, 2020 at 11:48 am)Klorophyll Wrote: Okay. First of all, it's not clear which criteria is involved when you use the word good. One can of course be a genuinely good person by not harming anybody his entire life, maybe devote himself to charity work, and at the same time refuse to worship God while acknowledging that some evidence presented to him is compelling, that is, matching the kafir' description. According to Islamic belief - or any abrahamic belief -, this person does go to hell. Do we disagree ? is this repugnant or unfair ? The simple thing is : it's not up to us..
We just had a catholic tell us the same thing.  So what if god is going to do repugnant or unfair things - nothing we can do about it.  What I'm wondering , though, is whether you agree with those unfair and repugnant things, in whatever you believe their proper context to be.

Quote:If one knowingly denies evidence for a creator, that is, the same power or deity that gave him the very brain and other senses he's denying it with, then it doesn't matter, according to Islamic belief, how good and cute he is. It doesn't matter if I took care of my neighbor's garden after I denied his existence and pretended I have absolute freedom and authority.
-and for people like that...the proper context..?

Quote:Secondly, I never said atheists or some Muslims cover up the truth. In general, it's very difficult to actually be a kafir and just continue to deny very compelling evidence one did encounter. Lots of objections can be cleared up if this is understood properly, such as whether Islam is an extremist belief or a threat to society etc. or any similar accusation.
I doubt that you've addressed any persons objections to islam - and I still have the same question that I did before you responded.  If you're attempting to clear up some objection based around islam being a threat to society - telling us that the group you think kafir properly refers to is smaller than some people think...well.....that isn't going to help.  Your religion of war has a focused shitlist - you think that it's the size of the shitlist rather than it's existence that's the problem.
It's bad for the rest of the world when americans are paid so little they can only afford chocolate mined by child slaves and clothes made in overseas sweatshops. - Robyn Pennacchia
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#32
RE: The most stupid misconceptions about Islam
(October 14, 2020 at 3:52 pm)SUNGULA Wrote: Keep repeating the same garbage . You have been crush on this site over and over and over and over . You have lost ! Get over it and go find a hobby !  Dodgy

I suggest finger painting . It suits your intellectual capacity and your  tediousness tendency for mindless repetition

I actually did find a hobby. To keep crushing you with the same garbage. Panic

You'll have the chance to evaluate my intellectual capacity in the slowest and most painful way possible.
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#33
RE: The most stupid misconceptions about Islam
Do you agree with the sentiments misinterpreted by english translations to a broader group when they're contained to proper context?
It's bad for the rest of the world when americans are paid so little they can only afford chocolate mined by child slaves and clothes made in overseas sweatshops. - Robyn Pennacchia
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#34
RE: The most stupid misconceptions about Islam
(October 14, 2020 at 8:03 am)Klorophyll Wrote: Hi there,

I've been hanging out lately on this forum and ended up reading a lot of threads about Islam. I'm just baffled by the amount of misinformation/grave misunderstandings of critical aspects of Islamic belief, presented - usually with a disgusting tone of self-confidence - by some pretended ex-Muslims and other people. It's impossible of course to give an exhaustive list of all screwed up interpretations of Islamic doctrine. I tried nonetheless to mention the most important ones.

So there you go.

The most stupid misconceptions about Islam


Non-believer/Disbeliever is equivalent to kafir':

This one deservedly tops the list, as I've seen the mistake repeatedly made by lots of Muslims themselves. The most popular english translations of the Qur'an are the real source of misinformation here, breaking down the meaning of the two words will probably make it easier to understand:

Disbelief or nonbelief is simply not believing in something. Another word for agnosticism.

Kufr', an Arabic word originally meaning to cover something, means, on the other hand, to insist on suspending belief while acknoweldging its truth and/or failing to refute evidence presented to support it. Basically, a kafir' is someone who covers the truth.

As you can see, these two words really don't have the same meaning. Despite this, English translations simply translate kufr' into disbelief!

All extremist interpretations of Islam commit this same exact mistake, merely not believing in something becomes strictly equivalent to denying truth knowingly.

Christians and Jews are going to hell according to Islam, by default:

Another laughable assertion one reads frequently, which has a lot to do with the misconception above, when one thinks about it. Someone adhering to christianity or judaism simply doesn't believe in the main tenets of Islam. Usually, christians and jews are simply nonbelievers, not kafir's, as defined above. If a christian is never presented with anything compelling him to believe that Muhammad' PBUH was the final prophet, he falls into the first category, not the second one, which is the one repudiated in the Qur'an.

The Satanic Verses' incident:

Never took place! For God's sake, anyone who isn't well versed in Islamic hadith really should avoid bringing this one up. The authenticity of the narrative recounting this event was refuted by professional Islamic scholars, including al-Albani, a leading figure in Islamic studies during the twentieth century.

Please listen to Islamic scholars and be skeptical when reading some ex-Muslim kid. It's really that simple.



More misconceptions to come very soon. Read

I will take a Malala over a Bin Laden, every day of the week. I will take a Martin Luther King Jr over a Jerry Falwell every day of the week. I will take a Anne Frank over a Bibi, Nutty Fuckwhoo, any day of the week.

I am tired of EVERY religion in the world trying to claim empathy and morality is some legal patent one religion/sect started, or invented.

There is no "misconception" in religion other than the logical mistake that different camps hold a Rosetta Stone, enigma code.

To me, my point of view has been for a long time, that the powers that be, WORLDWIDE, have money, and those powers use social and economic issues to convince other humans to defend them. But it does not matter what side you are on. EVRYONE DIES.
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#35
RE: The most stupid misconceptions about Islam
Well, that happened.

Boru
Ignorance is never valid grounds for the rejection of established facts.
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#36
RE: The most stupid misconceptions about Islam
(October 14, 2020 at 3:59 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: We just had a catholic tell us the same thing.  So what if god is going to do repugnant or unfair things - nothing we can do about it.  What I'm wondering , though, is whether you agree with those unfair and repugnant things, in whatever you believe their proper context to be.

I don't like any of these things. I am compelled to agree, though. It makes sense, at least. We belong to god, there is nothing more wrong, then, by definition, than to pretend he doesn't exist. -if, of course, one is presented with compelling enough evidence.
Imagine lending your neighbor everything you have, everything. He denies your existence afterwards and plays with your property, violating every rule in the contract. If neighbor does really repugnant stuff to your property, he does deserve repugnant things from you.

(October 14, 2020 at 3:59 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: I doubt that you've addressed any persons objections to islam - and I still have the same question that I did before you responded.  If you're attempting to clear up some objection based around islam being a threat to society - telling us that the group you think kafir properly refers to is smaller than some people think...well.....that isn't going to help.  Your religion of war has a focused shitlist - you think that it's the size of the shitlist rather than it's existence that's the problem.

And how is the existence of a shitlist a problem. It's really basic. Again : our bodies don't belong to us. We belong to god, god said, clearly, not to do some stuff. Some people do this exact stuff while aware of god's warnings. They deserve punishment. Is any of that a problem ? As far as I can tell, although I am not a god, there is no problem. My religion of war -as you like- is very straightforward : we belong to god, we should deal with it.
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#37
RE: The most stupid misconceptions about Islam
(October 14, 2020 at 4:00 pm)Klorophyll Wrote:
(October 14, 2020 at 3:52 pm)SUNGULA Wrote: Keep repeating the same garbage . You have been crush on this site over and over and over and over . You have lost ! Get over it and go find a hobby !  Dodgy

I suggest finger painting . It suits your intellectual capacity and your  tediousness tendency for mindless repetition

I actually did find a hobby. To keep crushing you with the same garbage. Panic

You'll have the chance to evaluate my intellectual capacity in the slowest and most painful way possible.
Lol no i'm afraid your hobby has been getting your behind kicked . Then asking for more . Like a good masochist . As i said take up painting it will be better for your health  Hehe 

I have already evaluated you primitive gruntings  and infantile mumblings too their conclusion and i can attest they are agonizing to any who's higher brain functions have not been severed by lobotomy . Yes slow is the best description of your intellect only surpassed by painfully slow  .

Hilarious
“The sun from far gives life. But get close to it and it burns anything down to ashes”
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#38
RE: The most stupid misconceptions about Islam
(October 14, 2020 at 4:17 pm)Klorophyll Wrote:
(October 14, 2020 at 3:59 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: We just had a catholic tell us the same thing.  So what if god is going to do repugnant or unfair things - nothing we can do about it.  What I'm wondering , though, is whether you agree with those unfair and repugnant things, in whatever you believe their proper context to be.

I don't like any of these things. I am compelled to agree, though. It makes sense, at least. We belong to god, there is nothing more wrong, then, by definition, than to pretend he doesn't exist. -if, of course, one is presented with compelling enough evidence.
Imagine lending your neighbor everything you have, everything. He denies your existence afterwards and plays with your property, violating every rule in the contract. If neighbor does really repugnant stuff to your property, he does deserve repugnant things from you.

(October 14, 2020 at 3:59 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: I doubt that you've addressed any persons objections to islam - and I still have the same question that I did before you responded.  If you're attempting to clear up some objection based around islam being a threat to society - telling us that the group you think kafir properly refers to is smaller than some people think...well.....that isn't going to help.  Your religion of war has a focused shitlist - you think that it's the size of the shitlist rather than it's existence that's the problem.

And how is the existence of a shitlist a problem. It's really basic. Again : our bodies don't belong to us. We belong to god, god said, clearly, not to do some stuff. Some people do this exact stuff while aware of god's warnings. They deserve punishment. Is any of that a problem ? As far as I can tell, although I am not a god, there is no problem. My religion of war -as you like- is very straightforward : we belong to god, we should deal with it.

"We belonged to God"?

THAT, that right there is the biggest mistake humans have made in claiming any super natural power, of any religion. 


"We exist" everyone sane should agree with. But as soon as ANYONE of any religion starts claiming super natural, superstitious, divine right over others. That is nothing more than advocating slavery.
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#39
RE: The most stupid misconceptions about Islam
(October 14, 2020 at 4:17 pm)Klorophyll Wrote:
(October 14, 2020 at 3:59 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: We just had a catholic tell us the same thing.  So what if god is going to do repugnant or unfair things - nothing we can do about it.  What I'm wondering , though, is whether you agree with those unfair and repugnant things, in whatever you believe their proper context to be.

I don't like any of these things. I am compelled to agree, though. It makes sense, at least. We belong to god, there is nothing more wrong, then, by definition, than to pretend he doesn't exist. -if, of course, one is presented with compelling enough evidence.
Imagine lending your neighbor everything you have, everything. He denies your existence afterwards and plays with your property, violating every rule in the contract. If neighbor does really repugnant stuff to your property, he does deserve repugnant things from you.

(October 14, 2020 at 3:59 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: I doubt that you've addressed any persons objections to islam - and I still have the same question that I did before you responded.  If you're attempting to clear up some objection based around islam being a threat to society - telling us that the group you think kafir properly refers to is smaller than some people think...well.....that isn't going to help.  Your religion of war has a focused shitlist - you think that it's the size of the shitlist rather than it's existence that's the problem.

And how is the existence of a shitlist a problem. It's really basic. Again : our bodies don't belong to us. We belong to god, god said, clearly, not to do some stuff. Some people do this exact stuff while aware of god's warnings. They deserve punishment. Is any of that a problem ? As far as I can tell, although I am not a god, there is no problem. My religion of war -as you like- is very straightforward : we belong to god, we should deal with it.

So, to you there are 2 terrible things that should be punished severely
  • Pretend God doesn't exist when when there is clear "evidence" that He does
  • Disobey the commands of this God, as claimed in some books.
Now, don't all Muslims believe that the clear evidence is in fact available?  That means that anyone who has read the Koran or lives in a Muslim country (except as a short term visitor) has no excuse.

As Islam literally means "submission to God", that makes God the ultimate dictator, with the commands outlined in the Quran and Hadiths, and whatever shit the clerics come up with.

Now, if there truly is a God, that is factually described in the OT and Quran, then yes, we live under the command of a vindictive genocidal maniac, and his rabid followers can stone us to death or burn us for disobeying.

But, if there isn't such a God (or the there is a real God, but he is completely different from what is told in Quran), then doling out punishment for these two "terrible things" is complete evil.  You know which side I stand on.
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#40
RE: The most stupid misconceptions about Islam
(October 14, 2020 at 4:17 pm)Klorophyll Wrote:
(October 14, 2020 at 3:59 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: We just had a catholic tell us the same thing.  So what if god is going to do repugnant or unfair things - nothing we can do about it.  What I'm wondering , though, is whether you agree with those unfair and repugnant things, in whatever you believe their proper context to be.

I don't like any of these things. I am compelled to agree, though. It makes sense, at least. We belong to god, there is nothing more wrong, then, by definition, than to pretend he doesn't exist. -if, of course, one is presented with compelling enough evidence.

Sure, let's see it. I'll examine whatever evidence you present.

(October 14, 2020 at 4:17 pm)Klorophyll Wrote: Imagine lending your neighbor everything you have, everything. He denies your existence afterwards and plays with your property, violating every rule in the contract. If neighbor does really repugnant stuff to your property, he does deserve repugnant things from you.

uhm, what the fuck are you even talking about? If I lent a neighbor all my property, what would that change for me personally? Is Islam about how much stuff you own and can lend out, and when your neighbor takes a piss on your shoes you lent him, you'll use that as an excuse for punching him? This is fucking ridiculous. And "contract", and using something I lent to my neighbor as an imperative for "repugnant" behavior??? You're delusional.

And in case you're wondering, I would never lend anything to someone like you. I might give you a penny, and be unsurprised if you found it fit to shove it up your ass, no skin off my back.

(October 14, 2020 at 4:17 pm)Klorophyll Wrote:
(October 14, 2020 at 3:59 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: I doubt that you've addressed any persons objections to islam - and I still have the same question that I did before you responded.  If you're attempting to clear up some objection based around islam being a threat to society - telling us that the group you think kafir properly refers to is smaller than some people think...well.....that isn't going to help.  Your religion of war has a focused shitlist - you think that it's the size of the shitlist rather than it's existence that's the problem.

And how is the existence of a shitlist a problem. It's really basic. Again : our bodies don't belong to us.

O rly? I am my own person and I will do whatever the fuck I want with my own body. As long as I'm not, in my actions, doing anyone else any physical harm, then I will continue to reject your notions of lack of personal autonomy. Fuck you.

(October 14, 2020 at 4:17 pm)Klorophyll Wrote: We belong to god, god said, clearly, not to do some stuff.

Like what? And why?

(October 14, 2020 at 4:17 pm)Klorophyll Wrote: Some people do this exact stuff while aware of god's warnings. They deserve punishment.

I would defend myself against any action against my autonomy. I would fight these assholes infringing on my autonomy.

(October 14, 2020 at 4:17 pm)Klorophyll Wrote: Is any of that a problem ? As far as I can tell, although I am not a god, there is no problem. My religion of war -as you like- is very straightforward : we belong to god, we should deal with it.

Yes, it is a problem for anyone that respects the rights of individuals and autonomy. Despite your abhorrent and fucking ridiculous and moronic take, I still respect your autonomy and individuality, I just think your talking points are fucking moronic and I will not hesitate telling you that in this reply.
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself — and you are the easiest person to fool." - Richard P. Feynman
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