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RE: Separation of Science and State
November 13, 2020 at 9:08 am
Considering that science is simply a systematic way for carefully and thoroughly observing nature and using consistent logic to evaluate results I would not divorce it from the state.
Do you want to separate the state from being thorough? Do you want to separate the state from using careful observation? Do you want to separate the state from being systematic? Or do you want to separate the state from using consistent logic?
teachings of the Bible are so muddled and self-contradictory that it was possible for Christians to happily burn heretics alive for five long centuries. It was even possible for the most venerated patriarchs of the Church, like St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas, to conclude that heretics should be tortured (Augustine) or killed outright (Aquinas). Martin Luther and John Calvin advocated the wholesale murder of heretics, apostates, Jews, and witches. - Sam Harris, "Letter To A Christian Nation"
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RE: Separation of Science and State
November 13, 2020 at 9:11 am
(This post was last modified: November 13, 2020 at 9:12 am by The Grand Nudger.)
He wants to separate the state from something he sees as an existential threat to his religion. It's super hard to bullshit a child when the public school they go to is properly educating them.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Separation of Science and State
November 13, 2020 at 9:15 am
(This post was last modified: November 13, 2020 at 9:15 am by brewer.)
OP: Nope. I'll take the rationality and reason of science in gov over religion every day of the week. And twice on Sunday.
Being told you're delusional does not necessarily mean you're mental.
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RE: Separation of Science and State
November 13, 2020 at 9:25 am
FWIW, the separation of church and state isn't a credible expectation of the faithful - we may be demanding that they do the impossible.
Nothing.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Separation of Science and State
November 13, 2020 at 10:41 am
We should separate the fighting about what science does from the fighting about what the state does. Then take the obstreperous ones out and recreate that "Maze Run" box.
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RE: Separation of Science and State
November 13, 2020 at 10:50 am
(November 13, 2020 at 1:18 am)John 6IX Breezy Wrote: The question: Should there be any separation between science and government (synonymous to church and state)? What should the relationship between science and government be? Are there any dangers in that relationship?
Politicians aren't qualified to do science, so they shouldn't meddle in it. Science is the best tool we know for getting closer to truth, and the results of science give us power over our environment.
Politicians should use the results of science in their decision making process. They could put limits on technologies that could harm society, but they shouldn't limit or interfere with science itself.
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RE: Separation of Science and State
November 13, 2020 at 11:06 am
(November 13, 2020 at 9:08 am)Fake Messiah Wrote: Considering that science is simply a systematic way for carefully and thoroughly observing nature and using consistent logic to evaluate results I would not divorce it from the state.
Do you want to separate the state from being thorough? Do you want to separate the state from using careful observation? Do you want to separate the state from being systematic? Or do you want to separate the state from using consistent logic?
The government should always value scientific fact. For example our judges have been consistent in bitch slapping evangelicals trying to claim creationism or ID are co equal to real science and want to teach it alongside and let kids choose.
And on top of that, while the Constitution rightfully defends freedom of religion, we have laws that can have parents arrested for neglect or child abuse if when harm comes to the child and they try to cop out to their faith.
But again, as I pointed out, governments have used science in very abusive ways, like WW2 Japan and Germany.
Point is be it the public or private sector, for science to maximize benefit and minimize harm, there has to be ethical oversight always.
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RE: Separation of Science and State
November 13, 2020 at 11:30 am
Separation of reality and government was narrowly voted down. Nevertheless, over 72 million voters are fine with government that ignores math, science, and reason because tax cuts fix everything.
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RE: Separation of Science and State
November 13, 2020 at 11:41 am
(November 13, 2020 at 11:30 am)Ranjr Wrote: Separation of reality and government was narrowly voted down. Nevertheless, over 72 million voters are fine with government that ignores math, science, and reason because tax cuts fix everything.
America isn't the only country in human history that has allowed a madman to lead a population off a cliff. We were lucky this time, we got a breather, but even with that, it is still up to the sane long term to prevent our destruction.
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RE: Separation of Science and State
November 13, 2020 at 11:57 am
(This post was last modified: November 13, 2020 at 12:21 pm by John 6IX Breezy.)
(November 13, 2020 at 8:56 am)Brian37 Wrote: Grand, to dispel John's myth that we worship science like a God
Well my post was about policy not worship; but I do think that, if we have spiritual minds (if our brains have systems that scaffold religiosity and spirituality), then in the absence of religion, that psychological void will be filled with other things such as science or politics. The way certain Trump supporters behave, for example, has comparisons to cult behavior. The same could be true for science: "'Science' in many minds is genuinely taking the place of a religion. Where this is so, the scientist treats the 'Laws of Nature' as objective facts to be revered" -William James.
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