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Why not dismiss the trinitarian belief outright
#21
RE: Why not dismiss the trinitarian belief outright
Theists arguing over their imaginary friends
“The sun from far gives life. But get close to it and it burns anything down to ashes”

[Image: flag-ukraine_1f1fa-1f1e6.png]  Heart [Image: canada-google.png]        

 “No matter what men think, abortion is a fact of life. Women have always had them; they always have and they always will. Are they going to have good ones or bad ones? Will the good ones be reserved for the rich, while the poor women go to quacks?”
–SHIRLEY CHISHOLM


      
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#22
RE: Why not dismiss the trinitarian belief outright
Why not also dismiss non-trinitarian belief?
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#23
RE: Why not dismiss the trinitarian belief outright
At work.

(June 4, 2021 at 9:30 pm)Klorophyll Wrote:
(June 4, 2021 at 9:21 pm)Peebo-Thuhlu Wrote: Not that Craig is lying about the Trinity. That Craig is known to be dishonest.

(1)Do you have any concrete examples showing that he's dishonest?
(2)Craig is after all one of the leading christian theologians today, I doubt he made a mistake while presenting a basic christian belief.

(June 4, 2021 at 9:21 pm)Peebo-Thuhlu Wrote: Hence using something that is untrustworthy as a source/foundation tends to leave the rest/following thoughts on dubious terms/territory.  Is all.

 Cheers.

(3)Okay. What would be the formulation of trinity instead.. according to you?

(1) Not on me/handy/able to link to at the present moment. I have seen undoctored video of Craig admitting that 'Truth' (Yes, capital 'T') will always be trumped/beaten by what he 'Knows' (I.E. Craig's fee-fees can't be disabused) to be hence that he'll twist, obfuscate and otherwise weasly himself around to protect his 'Feelings'/'Beliefs'.

(2)His standing within his community is not in question. His honesty, however, is quite questionable. Plus there's the fact that he's made errors when talking about things outside of his field. Of which he's been corrected. Only to continue with his dialogue unchaged.

(3) It's not my theology. Who's on the Son. What's on the Holy Spirit. I don't know is on third and frankly I don't give a darn.

Big Grin
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#24
RE: Why not dismiss the trinitarian belief outright
(June 4, 2021 at 10:11 pm)SUNGULA Wrote: Theists arguing over their imaginary friends

Your ironic statement is misplaced, sir. No theist except myself wrote any reply in this thread.

There are very compelling arguments for God out there, you know... I am not sure if you are a young fellow trying to please some members in this forum by defending atheism, or a grown atheist. I would suspect it's the former. Here is a sincere advice from me: you won't be finding any truth in internet forums, especially this forum, where argumentum ad nauseam is a widespread tactic, why not take a more neutral stance toward belief and religions and think coldly about this issue before returning to discussion and debates? Religous belief, or the absence thereof, is a very serious matter, you know.. just make sure you got it right.

(June 4, 2021 at 10:31 pm)Peebo-Thuhlu Wrote: At work.

(June 4, 2021 at 9:30 pm)Klorophyll Wrote: (1)Do you have any concrete examples showing that he's dishonest?
(2)Craig is after all one of the leading christian theologians today, I doubt he made a mistake while presenting a basic christian belief.


(3)Okay. What would be the formulation of trinity instead.. according to you?

(1) Not on me/handy/able to link to at the present moment. I have seen undoctored video of Craig admitting that 'Truth' (Yes, capital 'T') will always be trumped/beaten by what he 'Knows' (I.E. Craig's fee-fees can't be disabused) to be hence that he'll twist, obfuscate and otherwise weasly himself around to protect his 'Feelings'/'Beliefs'.

(2)His standing within his community is not in question. His honesty, however, is quite questionable.  Plus there's the fact that he's made errors when talking about things outside of his field. Of which he's been corrected. Only to continue with his dialogue unchaged.

(3) It's not my theology.  Who's on the Son. What's on the Holy Spirit. I don't know is on third and frankly I don't give a darn.

 Big Grin

I'll look into that. Thanks for the reply.

Regarding trinity, it just look obvious to me that it contradicts basic logical rules, all I've read so far is clumsy justifications. It's enough that Craig could only find a mythological dog to compare his trinitarian God to.
Qur'anic revelation is the sole path to ultimate reality. All argumentation and philosophy is an expression of arrogance and an overestimation of human cognitive ability. 

"But believe me, Cleanthes, the most natural feeling that a well-disposed mind will have on this occasion is a longing desire and expectation that God will be pleased to remove or at least to lessen this profound ignorance, by giving mankind some particular revelation, revealing the nature, attributes, and operations of the divine object of our faith." (Hume's Dialogues)


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#25
RE: Why not dismiss the trinitarian belief outright
At work.

Ah, that's the thing Klorophyll.

I, personally, don't find 'Arguments' compelling since they're like politicians. Everybody's got one.






No, wait........ that's @rsholes. *Shrug* Pretty much the same difference.
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#26
RE: Why not dismiss the trinitarian belief outright
(June 4, 2021 at 10:34 pm)Klorophyll Wrote:
(June 4, 2021 at 10:11 pm)SUNGULA Wrote: Theists arguing over their imaginary friends

Your ironic statement is misplaced, sir. No theist except myself wrote any reply in this thread.

There are very compelling arguments for God out there, you know... I am not sure if you are a young fellow trying to please some members in this forum by defending atheism, or a grown atheist. I would suspect it's the former. Here is a sincere advice from me: you won't be finding any truth in internet forums, especially this forum, where argumentum ad nauseam is a widespread tactic, why not take a more neutral stance toward belief and religions and think coldly about this issue before returning to discussion and debates? Religous belief, or the absence thereof, is a very serious matter, you know.. just make sure you got it right.

You will get more insight into the answer to your question from someone who believes in the concept of the trinity.  Most of us left such faith practices which in part means that we don't buy into the concept.  That shouldn't be difficult to understand.  

Why do people believe what they believe?  You have to ask them.

But I will tell you that William Lane Craig isn't the ultimate source for such things as he is pretty fringe.  Find yourself a nice middle of the road Christian to explain why they believe what they believe with regard to the trinity.
 “Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe.” ~Albert Einstein                                                 
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#27
RE: Why not dismiss the trinitarian belief outright
At work.

(June 4, 2021 at 10:34 pm)Klorophyll Wrote:
(June 4, 2021 at 10:11 pm)SUNGULA Wrote: Theists arguing over their imaginary friends

Your ironic statement is misplaced, sir. No theist except myself wrote any reply in this thread.

There are very compelling arguments for God out there, you know... I am not sure if you are a young fellow trying to please some members in this forum by defending atheism, or a grown atheist. I would suspect it's the former. Here is a sincere advice from me: you won't be finding any truth in internet forums, especially this forum, where argumentum ad nauseam is a widespread tactic, why not take a more neutral stance toward belief and religions and think coldly about this issue before returning to discussion and debates? Religous belief, or the absence thereof, is a very serious matter, you know.. just make sure you got it right.

(June 4, 2021 at 10:31 pm)Peebo-Thuhlu Wrote: (1) Not on me/handy/able to link to at the present moment. I have seen undoctored video of Craig admitting that 'Truth' (Yes, capital 'T') will always be trumped/beaten by what he 'Knows' (I.E. Craig's fee-fees can't be disabused) to be hence that he'll twist, obfuscate and otherwise weasly himself around to protect his 'Feelings'/'Beliefs'.

(2)His standing within his community is not in question. His honesty, however, is quite questionable.  Plus there's the fact that he's made errors when talking about things outside of his field. Of which he's been corrected. Only to continue with his dialogue unchaged.

(3) It's not my theology.  Who's on the Son. What's on the Holy Spirit. I don't know is on third and frankly I don't give a darn.

 Big Grin

I'll look into that. Thanks for the reply.

Regarding trinity, it just look obvious to me that it contradicts basic logical rules, all I've read so far is clumsy justifications. It's enough that Craig could only find a mythological dog to compare his trinitarian God to.

You're most welcome.

T'is a funy old world, in'it?

Since I find the overall concepts presented to me of 'Dietys' as similarly contradictory in the logic department.

So on that level we kind of agree. Smile
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#28
RE: Why not dismiss the trinitarian belief outright
Quote:Your ironic statement is misplaced, sir. No theist except myself wrote any reply in this thread.

There are very compelling arguments for God out there, you know... I am not sure if you are a young fellow trying to please some members in this forum by defending atheism, or a grown atheist. I would suspect it's the former. Here is a sincere advice from me: you won't be finding any truth in internet forums, especially this forum, where argumentum ad nauseam is a widespread tactic, why not take a more neutral stance toward belief and religions and think coldly about this issue before returning to discussion and debates? Religous belief, or the absence thereof, is a very serious matter, you know.. just make sure you got it right. I never said any other theist said anything. 

I never said were arguing with a specific theist. I said you're clearly objecting to another theistic doctrine. Thus it's just one theist bickering over another's doctrine. So no it's your statement that's misplaced I'm afraid. As for the rest of your Innane babble, it's just that.... babble. Hehe
“The sun from far gives life. But get close to it and it burns anything down to ashes”

[Image: flag-ukraine_1f1fa-1f1e6.png]  Heart [Image: canada-google.png]        

 “No matter what men think, abortion is a fact of life. Women have always had them; they always have and they always will. Are they going to have good ones or bad ones? Will the good ones be reserved for the rich, while the poor women go to quacks?”
–SHIRLEY CHISHOLM


      
Reply
#29
RE: Why not dismiss the trinitarian belief outright
(June 4, 2021 at 10:42 pm)arewethereyet Wrote: You will get more insight into the answer to your question from someone who believes in the concept of the trinity.  Most of us left such faith practices which in part means that we don't buy into the concept.  That shouldn't be difficult to understand.  

Why do people believe what they believe?  You have to ask them.

But I will tell you that William Lane Craig isn't the ultimate source for such things as he is pretty fringe.  Find yourself a nice middle of the road Christian to explain why they believe what they believe with regard to the trinity.

Thanks for the answer. I am not really looking for personal reasons to believe in Trinity, but for real objective justifications of this idea. This is why I prefer atheist forums, at least I won't get lengthy quotes from the Bible as answers. Besides, I thought that the "Christianity" subforum is visited by actual christians but apparently this isn't the case. 

I recently found a video of some christian apologist named Matt Slick purportedly destroying Matt Dillahunty, I am not sure if anyone here knows the former and can advise me to read more about his defenses of christian doctrine.

(June 4, 2021 at 10:56 pm)SUNGULA Wrote: I never said were arguing with a specific theist. I said you're clearly objecting to another theistic doctrine. Thus it's just one theist bickering over another's doctrine. So no it's your statement that's misplaced I'm afraid. As for the rest of your Innane babble, it's just that.... babble. Hehe

If you say so. Just chill.

(June 4, 2021 at 10:43 pm)Peebo-Thuhlu Wrote: You're most welcome.

T'is a funy old world, in'it?

Since I find the overall concepts presented to me of 'Dietys' as similarly contradictory in the logic department.

So on that level we kind of agree.   Smile

Well, I am not sure how exactly do you perceive monotheism or why do you think it is contradictory. Islam and Judaism are both monotheisms. My take on Judaism is the absence of hell. If there is no physical punishment inflicted on the likes of Hitler. Then clearly, either the deity isn't just/unexistent or judaism is false.
Qur'anic revelation is the sole path to ultimate reality. All argumentation and philosophy is an expression of arrogance and an overestimation of human cognitive ability. 

"But believe me, Cleanthes, the most natural feeling that a well-disposed mind will have on this occasion is a longing desire and expectation that God will be pleased to remove or at least to lessen this profound ignorance, by giving mankind some particular revelation, revealing the nature, attributes, and operations of the divine object of our faith." (Hume's Dialogues)


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#30
RE: Why not dismiss the trinitarian belief outright
Quote:If you say so. Just chill.
Yes, I do say so because it's true. And from what I'm seeing I'm not the one that needs to chill.  Hehe
“The sun from far gives life. But get close to it and it burns anything down to ashes”

[Image: flag-ukraine_1f1fa-1f1e6.png]  Heart [Image: canada-google.png]        

 “No matter what men think, abortion is a fact of life. Women have always had them; they always have and they always will. Are they going to have good ones or bad ones? Will the good ones be reserved for the rich, while the poor women go to quacks?”
–SHIRLEY CHISHOLM


      
Reply



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