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Why not dismiss the trinitarian belief outright
#31
RE: Why not dismiss the trinitarian belief outright
(June 4, 2021 at 11:13 pm)Klorophyll Wrote:
(June 4, 2021 at 10:42 pm)arewethereyet Wrote: You will get more insight into the answer to your question from someone who believes in the concept of the trinity.  Most of us left such faith practices which in part means that we don't buy into the concept.  That shouldn't be difficult to understand.  

Why do people believe what they believe?  You have to ask them.

But I will tell you that William Lane Craig isn't the ultimate source for such things as he is pretty fringe.  Find yourself a nice middle of the road Christian to explain why they believe what they believe with regard to the trinity.

Thanks for the answer. I am not really looking for personal reasons to believe in Trinity, but for real objective justifications of this idea. This is why I prefer atheist forums, at least I won't get lengthy quotes from the Bible as answers. Besides, I thought that the "Christianity" subforum is visited by actual christians but apparently this isn't the case. 

I recently found a video of some christian apologist named Matt Slick purportedly destroying Matt Dillahunty, I am not sure if anyone here knows the former and can advise me to read more about his defenses of christian doctrine.
I am not familiar with Matt Slick...I have little use for apologists.
I suppose the best way to look at it (the concept of the trinity) is the same way many things in religion have to be taken and that is on faith.  That's what I was taught.  You don't ask a lot of questions but instead take the teachings on faith.  
That never worked for me.  I needed proof or at least something that made sense.  Why should I take anything on faith?
Seriously, find a believer and ask them to explain it.  In fact, find a few.  I just went through a Google search to see what's out there for an explanation and I got similar but different explanations on about a half dozen sites.  I think you will find the same is true if you ask a half dozen believers...you will get similar but different answers.  I have a hunch that even those who profess to be believers don't all buy the trinity thing but claim to as it's expected of them.
 “Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe.” ~Albert Einstein                                                 
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#32
RE: Why not dismiss the trinitarian belief outright
Matt Slick's people say Matt Slick destroyed Dillahunty. Dillahunty's people say Dillahunty destroyed Slick. I suspect a lot depends upon whose side you're on.
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#33
RE: Why not dismiss the trinitarian belief outright
(June 4, 2021 at 8:26 pm)Klorophyll Wrote: Why not dismiss the trinitarian belief outright

Because Christians don't put much thought into what they believe, but believe in what they are told to believe.
teachings of the Bible are so muddled and self-contradictory that it was possible for Christians to happily burn heretics alive for five long centuries. It was even possible for the most venerated patriarchs of the Church, like St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas, to conclude that heretics should be tortured (Augustine) or killed outright (Aquinas). Martin Luther and John Calvin advocated the wholesale murder of heretics, apostates, Jews, and witches. - Sam Harris, "Letter To A Christian Nation"
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#34
RE: Why not dismiss the trinitarian belief outright
At work.

(June 4, 2021 at 11:13 pm)Klorophyll Wrote:
(June 4, 2021 at 10:43 pm)Peebo-Thuhlu Wrote: You're most welcome.

T'is a funy old world, in'it?

Since I find the overall concepts presented to me of 'Dietys' as similarly contradictory in the logic department.

So on that level we kind of agree.   Smile

Well, I am not sure how exactly do you perceive monotheism or why do you think it is contradictory. Islam and Judaism are both monotheisms. My take on Judaism is the absence of hell. If there is no physical punishment inflicted on the likes of Hitler. Then clearly, either the deity isn't just/unexistent or judaism is false.

I didn't quite say 'Contradictory' but more 'Incoherent' and 'Not matching reality'.

Take for example the idea of 'Omniscience'.

Given what we know of reality, such a thing can't exist within it. The whole 'Light speed limit' thing.

Currently, baring thought experiment particles, nothing travels faster than photon(s). Hence there's no way for a diety to know what's going on here on Earth and happening at Alpha Centauri at the same time. Hence no Omniscience.

Same for the posit of 'Diety exist before our time/space etc'.

Great. That puts it 13.7 Billion years ago (As in the past). So..... how does it get from there to here?

We can go on and on and on with the weirdness that's presented.

So. No coherant diety's being presented to me.

Hope that's clear? Smile
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#35
RE: Why not dismiss the trinitarian belief outright
(June 4, 2021 at 10:34 pm)Klorophyll Wrote: Religious belief, or the absence thereof, is a very serious matter, you know...

It's only serious because religious people keep interfering in the lives of non-religious people and those who practice other religions. If you were just all meeting quietly in your places of worship, not bothering anyone else, we'd have no major quarrel with you.
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#36
RE: Why not dismiss the trinitarian belief outright
(June 4, 2021 at 10:34 pm)Klorophyll Wrote: Regarding trinity, it just look obvious to me that it contradicts basic logical rules, all I've read so far is clumsy justifications.

Seemed obvious to the christians as well.  They plugged along with it anyway, because that's what their narrative tradition demanded of their beliefs.  I don't see the point of contemporary justifications, rational reconstruction.
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#37
RE: Why not dismiss the trinitarian belief outright
So are you trying to establish that the jesusers make believe is more make believe than your particular brand of make believe?
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#38
RE: Why not dismiss the trinitarian belief outright
(June 4, 2021 at 8:26 pm)Klorophyll Wrote: Hey there,

One of the most puzzling questions for me regarding christianity is why the doctrine of Trinity was accepted into mainstream christian beliefs.. even more puzzling is how some people accept it, without a problem, as a core article of faith. Beliefs should at least be internally consistent. The assertion that three separate entities exist as one unique entity clearly contradicts the law of identity, and thus should be ruled out 

This is one of my favorite videos about christianity. W.L. Craig, probably the most famous christian apologist alive, compares the trinitarian God to .... the mythological three-headed Dog!!! Didn't he notice that each head is a damn head.. not a dog?? In contrast, the Father, the Son, the Father are each clearly equivalent to dogs.......

Am I missing something, or is trinitarian belief a very basic logical mistake ...?

what if.. you yourself interacted with the Holy Spirit on an on going basis. could you then pretend it does not exist?
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#39
RE: Why not dismiss the trinitarian belief outright
Pretending is something godders do exceptionally well.
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#40
RE: Why not dismiss the trinitarian belief outright
(June 4, 2021 at 8:26 pm)Klorophyll Wrote: Hey there,

One of the most puzzling questions for me regarding christianity is why the doctrine of Trinity was accepted into mainstream christian beliefs.. even more puzzling is how some people accept it, without a problem, as a core article of faith. Beliefs should at least be internally consistent. The assertion that three separate entities exist as one unique entity clearly contradicts the law of identity, and thus should be ruled out 





This is one of my favorite videos about christianity. W.L. Craig, probably the most famous christian apologist alive, compares the trinitarian God to .... the mythological three-headed Dog!!! Didn't he notice that each head is a damn head.. not a dog?? In contrast, the Father, the Son, the Father are each clearly equivalent to dogs.......

Am I missing something, or is trinitarian belief a very basic logical mistake ...?

I always find it funny when someone who also subscribes to an ancient religion, points to another and criticizes their logic. The atheist is always the one on the outside looking at everyone else, and saying " You are not wrong, but you don't look in the mirror yourself."

The only difference between the atheist and the theist is that we reject one more god claim than you do.
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