Why not dismiss the trinitarian belief outright

[Vicki Q]

Apologies for resurrecting a discussion, but it should be fun to kick around these questions with a different group of people.

After Jesus' resurrection, the earliest Xians sat down to try and make sense of it all. There was just no movement of any kind on the oneness of God. Monotheism was simply not up for debate.

Yet they had seen Jesus do things that God had always said He would do- sort out the problems of sin, save His people, return as King to Jerusalem etc. In short, Jesus filled a God shaped hole.

Within the Jewish story, the transcendent God had appeared to humanity before. The Pillar of cloud and fire, the Presence in the tabernacle, and the Burning Bush were all examples of where God had been present in a perceivable form. They concluded that God had appeared to them once again in the series, in human form this time.

Further, their ongoing experiences lead them to believe that the Holy Spirit continued to be an ongoing presence of God with humanity.

The NT writers don't get into detailed debates about the nature of God. Not for them arguments about subordinationism or Greek punctuation. This seems to me to be a sensible way ahead.

[Fake Messiah]

Or, makers of Jesus myth were like all inventors of religions: just re-hashing the old and familiar. 

So when Christianity came to Rome, the concept of Trinity was taken from Roman Capitoline Triad of Jupiter (father), Juno (wife), and Minerva (daughter), who took it from the Greeks Olympic triad of Zeus (king of the gods), Athena (goddess of war and intelect) and Apollo (god of the sun, culture and music); who took it from Hellenistic Egypt triad of Isis, Alexandrian Serapis and Harpocrates; and so on.

[The Grand Nudger]

The communities that produced “the nt writings” disagreed so much that they were killing each other in the streets. Any attempt to cast their disagreements as a matter of punctuation is absurd.

They -did- disagree on the oneness of god. They disagreed on the Jewishness of Christianity. They disagreed on literally every matter even tangentially related. This is…..why…. the rcc came about. An attempt at a unity of faith. That’s what the word means.

[GUBU]

Craig is after all one of the leading christian theologians today,

If Craig is a leading theologian then I'm the Queen of Sheba. Address me as Your Majesty in future, peon!

[Angrboda]

Craig is after all one of the leading christian theologians today,

If Craig is a leading theologian then I'm the Queen of Sheba.  Address me as Your Majesty in future, peon!

I think this says less about Craig than it does about "Christian theologians."

[vulcanlogician]

If anyone wants to see how multifaceted (and multi-unconvincing) the trinity is, check this video out. My favorite part is when Kuhn presents a half-ass plausible solution, and the guy's like "No, that's a heresy!"

[LadyForCamus]

Why not dismiss Islam outright?

[Vicki Q]

Or, makers of Jesus myth were like all inventors of religions: just re-hashing the old and familiar. 

So when Christianity came to Rome, the concept of Trinity was taken from Roman Capitoline Triad of Jupiter (father), Juno (wife), and Minerva (daughter), who took it from the Greeks Olympic triad of Zeus (king of the gods), Athena (goddess of war and intelect) and Apollo (god of the sun, culture and music); who took it from Hellenistic Egypt triad of Isis, Alexandrian Serapis and Harpocrates; and so on.

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The communities that produced “the nt writings” disagreed so much that they were killing each other in the streets.  Any attempt to cast their disagreements as a matter of punctuation is absurd.

They -did- disagree on the oneness of god. They disagreed on the Jewishness of Christianity.  They disagreed on literally every matter even tangentially related.  This is…..why…. the rcc came about.  An attempt at a unity of faith.  That’s what the word means.

What evidence is there that the NT community disagreed on the oneness of God?


We know they disagreed viscerally about the ongoing application of Torah, but I'm not aware of any evidence which challenges the oneness of God- in fact the absence of evidence is highly significant. As is the lack of challenge to the divine nature of Jesus.

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The NT writers don't get into detailed debates about the nature of God. Not for them arguments about subordinationism or Greek punctuation. 

I think you're muddling the iota debate up with 'jot and tittle' from Matthew 5:18. Iota is a Greek letter, and was highly significant in the Nicene debate; jot = iota; and tittle is punctuation.

Please think harder before posting drivel.

[Fake Messiah]

Or, makers of Jesus myth were like all inventors of religions: just re-hashing the old and familiar. 

So when Christianity came to Rome, the concept of Trinity was taken from Roman Capitoline Triad of Jupiter (father), Juno (wife), and Minerva (daughter), who took it from the Greeks Olympic triad of Zeus (king of the gods), Athena (goddess of war and intelect) and Apollo (god of the sun, culture and music); who took it from Hellenistic Egypt triad of Isis, Alexandrian Serapis and Harpocrates; and so on.

Yeah, right Trinity is so original and the resemblance to trinities in other religions is just... what exactly? A coincidence? Just like turning Jesus' mother into Magna Mater is a coincidence, Jesus's passion being like the passion of Tammuz and the passions of other Gods. Jesus' resurrection is just like resurrections of other gods, and so on.

Especially since Trinity doesn't make sense in Christianity so it's obviously forced since Jesus is his own father, and Mary is his daughter, sister, mother, and whatnot.

[onlinebiker]

Wrong thread
.....
Oops