The reason religion is so powerful

[brewer]

Forced birth does seem oddly inverted—am I forcing people into poverty by preventing a robbery?

God is certainly making you state some very strange things. That's a bad analogy.

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You guys don't care how it affects or impacts the woman; you care about the ideology. You would maintain your position in the absence of any impact, and even in the presence of harm, as Helios demonstrates:

"Too bad I never said doing [abortions] at home should be illegal."

No, we know how it impacts women, it gives them choice. Get an abortion, don't get an abortion, see.......... choice.

[Mister Agenda]

How about you respond to my queries about why is it okay to force a pregnant woman to give birth against her will?

I don't respond because I reject the premise of your question; and because I've stated several times that I disagree with such absolute terms.

OK. When is it okay to force a woman to give birth against her will?

[arewethereyet]

I don't respond because I reject the premise of your question; and because I've stated several times that I disagree with such absolute terms.

OK. When is it okay to force a woman to give birth against her will?

When you are living in "The Handmaid's Tale."

[Mister Agenda]

Supporters of partial birth abortion are extremists. The first people to muddy the waters were those using the phrase forced birth. I am willing to allow that an embryo has developmentally appropriate rights in the same sense that children have fewer rights than adults.

That supporters of partial birth abortion are extremists is nonsense. The idea that it's common for a woman to wake up one morning in her 8th month and decide delivering is no longer convenient for her so. When you're late-term the woman has almost always decided to deliver and wants a baby. If the fetus is dead and they remove it, the procedure is still an abortion, and it's not good for the pregnant woman to keep a dead fetus in her womb. Late-term abortions are required by law to be medically necessary, whether because there's something seriously wrong with the fetus or it is a doctor's opinion that giving birth is too dangerous to the mother.

How is the phrase 'force birth' muddying the waters? If abortion is illegal for any reason the pregnant woman who wants one is not giving birth by choice, she is being forced to give birth through the power of the state or face whatever consequences are being imposed.

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Forced birth does seem oddly inverted—am I forcing people into poverty by preventing a robbery?

If you use force to prevent a robbery it's, wait for it, use of force. Even if you think abortion is murder, making it illegal is still forcing women to give birth against their will. It is what it is. If you're not comfortable with the language, maybe don't support forcing women to give birth against their will.

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You guys don't care how it affects or impacts the woman; you care about the ideology. You would maintain your position in the absence of any impact, and even in the presence of harm, as Helios demonstrates:

"Too bad I never said doing [abortions] at home should be illegal."

So one quote from one person illustrates what we all think. That's another level of thinking right there.

[John 6IX Breezy]

If you use force to prevent a robbery it's, wait for it, use of force. Even if you think abortion is murder, making it illegal is still forcing women to give birth against their will. It is what it is. If you're not comfortable with the language, maybe don't support forcing women to give birth against their will.

I'm comfortable with language that is accurate, which this is not.

Preventing an abortion is not equal to inducing labor, agreed? If this isn't obvious consider that no matter how much force we use to prevent an abortion, it doesn't prevent a miscarriage. And conversely, in stillbirths, a spontaneous abortion doesn't prevent giving birth to a stillborn child.

Therefore, we can conclude that these two variables are dissociated from one another. I am neither preventing a birth by allowing an abortion, nor am I forcing a birth by preventing an abortion. To the contrary, the more force we use to prevent abortions, the more likely we are to cause a miscarriage, thereby preventing a birth.

All of this is obvious in my robbery analogy. Believing that I'm forcing you into poverty by not allowing you to commit a robbery is a misattribution of the events. It's quite literally an argument from the heap, a slippery slope argument, which is a logical fallacy.

[The Grand Nudger]

It's comforting that forced birthers are uncomfortable with the thing they want to do. I imagine that it's rough being pulled between decency and religion.

[Sal]

It's comforting that forced birthers are uncomfortable with the thing they want to do.  I imagine that it's rough being pulled between decency and religion.

Philosophy Tube on YouTube had an interesting angle with the whole "forced birthing" thing. Imagine a scenario where your kidneys (or other vital organ) are hooked up to a person who will die if you cut the cord between you and the other person, and you have to stay hooked to this person for 9 whole months, before you can cut the cord. What say have you in this scenario, for a pro-lifer?

[John 6IX Breezy]

What say have you in this scenario...

I would say, again, that it's an androcentric analogy—it's a perspective that requires men to be viewed as the default gender, and minimizes that pregnancy is a part of womanhood.

That this is true can be demonstrated given that women who are quiet happy to be pregnant, would nevertheless object to having their kidneys hooked up to such a stranger.

[The Grand Nudger]

All concern troll all the time, but why would concern work on baby killing monsters?

[brewer]

It's comforting that forced birthers are uncomfortable with the thing they want to do.  I imagine that it's rough being pulled between decency and religion.

Breez seems to fall somewhere outside the official position.

https://spectrummagazine.org/news/2019/c...guidelines

If I'm reading this correctly it appears that the 'concern' should be directed at the existing life and not the potential life.