Stupid things religious people say

[The Architect Of Fate]

So first I do want to say - I went back about 10 pages and didn't see, but we can chalk it up to me being lazy and so I'll take the defensive stance on if a zygote is or isn't a human.

Will the American College of Peditricians work as a source to confirm my position? Let's see a stance on that, quote...

"ABSTRACT: The predominance of human biological research confirms that human life begins at conception—fertilization.  At fertilization, the human being emerges as a whole, genetically distinct, individuated zygotic living human organism, a member of the species Homo sapiens, needing only the proper environment in order to grow and develop. The difference between the individual in its adult stage and in its zygotic stage is one of form, not nature. This statement focuses on the scientific evidence of when an individual human life begins."

https://acpeds.org/position-statements/w...ife-begins

So - my apologies again, but if you could define how they are not "human" that would be wonderful; and please use some citation other than I said so.

No, the American College of Pediatricians does not qualify as a source - they are not a scientific organization or research body, but a conservative advocacy group that also promotes conversion therapy and abstinence-only sex education, and rails against LBGTQ+ rights and vaccines.

You can read more about this hate group here:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/American...iatricians

Boru

It's hilarious he tries to guilt trip me over pointing that out

[Fake Messiah]

Pastor Marvin Sapp Defends His $40K Ask From Congregation: ‘Not Manipulation; It’s Stewardship’

At a sermon at Chosen Vessel Cathedral in Fort Worth, Texas, pastor Sapp instructed church ushers to “close the doors” of the sanctuary until attendees contributed the full amount of $40K. “Giving is worship,” he told the congregation, as he urged both in-person and online participants to donate.

Sapp assured critics and supporters that his plea was in the spirit of stewardship. The cathedral will hold the “Engage Conference: A 3N1 Experience” on May 22. Any funds raised during the service will cover the costs of the international gathering.

“Conferences have budgets. Churches have budgets. And people have budgets. As the assigned ministerial gift for this international gathering, one of my responsibilities was to help raise the conference budget. That’s not manipulation. It’s stewardship.”

He explained the risks of collecting large sums of money in a physical location, which led to the decision to lock the sanctuary doors.

“The truth is, when finances are being received in any worship gathering, it is one of the most vulnerable and exposed times for both the finance and security teams. Movement during this sacred exchange can be distracting and, at times, even risky. My directive was not about control. It was about creating a safe, focused and reverent environment for those choosing to give and for those handling the resources,” Sapp wrote.

Sapp asserted that his request aligned with scripture.

“The Bible says they gave gold, silver, bronze, iron and precious stones. Specific amounts were recorded not because God needed their money but because the people needed to show their commitment to the vision and because stewardship demands accountability. So when someone challenges people to give a specific amount, it is not unbiblical.”

https://www.blackenterprise.com/marvin-s...-offering/

[Sheldon]

None of this refutes my point 

1. Merely having human DNA doesn't make something fully human 

2. Being unique doesn't make it fully human 

3. Saying if given time to develop again doesn't immediately make it fully human  

So this entire post is moot as it in no way refutes my point that  zygote  aren't fully human and only potentially human 

We have already determined they are human by scientific definition of the American College of Pediatrics; 

No, we have done no such thing, they're expressing a subjective belief, based on their right wing conservative political and religious ideology, it's not a scientific view, nor are they a scientific body. Theists use this sort of fallacious appeals to authority all the time, it's the difference between an objective scientific view, and the subjective view of someone who happens to be a scientist. 

Anyone claiming a microscopic clump of insentient cells is a child, as you did, or a fully formed human, is not expressing a scientific view, and it is risible nonsense to boot. 

Do you need to see the photos again? 




A zygote is a single cell formed by the fusion of sperm and egg, about 0.7 mm in diameter, while a blastocyst, a later stage of development, is a hollow ball of cells about 0.1-0.2 mm in diameter, roughly the size of a pinhead. 


Every time you try to describe this as a child or a human being, you are making your ludicrous bias more obvious. granting rights to a zygote or blastocyst, that we would never ever grant to a fully formed human being, namely to use someone else's body against their will, is also laughable. The right to life simply never extends to hijacking someone else's body, and enslaving them, by taking away their bodily autonomy.

[GrandizerII]

The American College of Pediatrics is a political body before it is a body of healthcare professionals. The most primary criterion for membership with them is to share the same political/ideological biases they do about things like abortion. Being a healthcare professional comes second, not first. So even if the members themselves are professionals in healthcare and well-versed in science, the group itself doesn't automatically become a scientific group if its members nevertheless are spouting opinions (no matter how well-educated) rather than objective scientific facts.

[The Grand Nudger]

God doesn't care if it's a human.  His opinion on the matter of the baybees is crystal clear.  Sure, godless heathen children are grist for the bone mill....but also if you suspect that bitches be cheatin.

---

1 Then the Lord said to Moses, 12 “Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘If a man’s wife goes astray and is unfaithful to him 13 so that another man has sexual relations with her, and this is hidden from her husband and her impurity is undetected (since there is no witness against her and she has not been caught in the act), 14 and if feelings of jealousy come over her husband and he suspects his wife and she is impure—or if he is jealous and suspects her even though she is not impure— 15 then he is to take his wife to the priest. He must also take an offering of a tenth of an ephah[c] of barley flour on her behalf. He must not pour olive oil on it or put incense on it, because it is a grain offering for jealousy, a reminder-offering to draw attention to wrongdoing.

16 “‘The priest shall bring her and have her stand before the Lord. 17 Then he shall take some holy water in a clay jar and put some dust from the tabernacle floor into the water. 18 After the priest has had the woman stand before the Lord, he shall loosen her hair and place in her hands the reminder-offering, the grain offering for jealousy, while he himself holds the bitter water that brings a curse. 19 Then the priest shall put the woman under oath and say to her, “If no other man has had sexual relations with you and you have not gone astray and become impure while married to your husband, may this bitter water that brings a curse not harm you. 20 But if you have gone astray while married to your husband and you have made yourself impure by having sexual relations with a man other than your husband”— 21 here the priest is to put the woman under this curse—“may the Lord cause you to become a curse[d] among your people when he makes your womb miscarry and your abdomen swell. 22 May this water that brings a curse enter your body so that your abdomen swells or your womb miscarries.”

“‘Then the woman is to say, “Amen. So be it.”

23 “‘The priest is to write these curses on a scroll and then wash them off into the bitter water. 24 He shall make the woman drink the bitter water that brings a curse, and this water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering will enter her. 25 The priest is to take from her hands the grain offering for jealousy, wave it before the Lord and bring it to the altar. 26 The priest is then to take a handful of the grain offering as a memorial[e] offering and burn it on the altar; after that, he is to have the woman drink the water. 27 If she has made herself impure and been unfaithful to her husband, this will be the result: When she is made to drink the water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering, it will enter her, her abdomen will swell and her womb will miscarry, and she will become a curse. 28 If, however, the woman has not made herself impure, but is clean, she will be cleared of guilt and will be able to have children.

29 “‘This, then, is the law of jealousy when a woman goes astray and makes herself impure while married to her husband, 30 or when feelings of jealousy come over a man because he suspects his wife. The priest is to have her stand before the Lord and is to apply this entire law to her. 31 The husband will be innocent of any wrongdoing, but the woman will bear the consequences of her sin.’”

Numbers 5

---

[brewer]

We have already determined they are human by scientific definition of the American College of Pediatrics

Conception does not always create a human, this statement is false.

[The Architect Of Fate]

Define "okay" if I miss something...

Is it right she has to? No. Is it fair she has to? No. Is it a good thing she has to? No. Did she deserve it? No. Did she do something to provoke it? No. Do men have a "right" to her? No. Should a man decide for her? No. Should a woman decide for her? No. Should society decide for her? No. 



Do the sins of the father justify the blood of the son?

So, it's wrong that a woman has to carry a rapist's baby to term.  With all the above we can add that pregnancy and childbirth can be detrimental to a woman's health, perhaps even causing her death.  It would not be good for her mentally or emotionally.  She would have to figure out how to manage the financial aspects of pregnancy, childbirth, and possible if not probably loss of income.  But the rapist, who is often not caught, gets to go merrily on their way without consequence.

Your god ordered first borns to be killed.  But he is against allowing a woman to attempt to regain her life after being assaulted.

Sounds like a wonderful system to be so bought into.

He has this weird notion of trying to frame abortion as a punishment

[Sheldon]

Just as predicted 

A raped women should never be forced to carry her rapists  fetus .....period

Who gets to make those arbitrations?

Who decides how, when, and for what your body is used?

[The Valkyrie]

Oh and about his source it's not a legitimate scientific body it's a Conservative social advocacy group



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_C...iatricians

Oh got it - so it's only legitimate if it agrees with your political views, I forgot how that is how science works.

Golly jee, I sure got the nature of science wrong when I was young - no wonder my naive views of questioning and figuring things out for yourself got us in hot water.

Funny enough, the same people who blacklisted us now pat themselves on the back for having "discovered" 16,000 year old artifacts that "totally revolutionize the understanding of human settlement in the Americas!" that we told them about decades ago.

Academics are not scientists, sorry hunny.

No, they're a conservative group of medical professionals who cite their beliefs, not facts, to push their beliefs on others and use their professional titles to make them sound legitimate.

Also, if you call me "hunny", "honey", or anything else in that vein to try and somehow degrade my opinion, in you're mind, you'll regret it.

[TheWhiteMarten]

Who gets to make those arbitrations?

Who decides how, when, and for what your body is used?

The natural biological processes of reproduction.