Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: November 5, 2024, 3:33 pm

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Young more likely to pray than over-55s - survey
#11
RE: Young more likely to pray than over-55s - survey
(September 26, 2021 at 5:58 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: ^^That.

Prayer can be very broadly divided into three categories: intercessory (asking for stuff); thanksgiving (thanking God for good things); and praise (telling God how great he is).

Intercessory prayer is essentially asking God to alter things on your behalf and at your request. This smacks of hubris - God is supposed to change the immutable divine plans simply because someone drowning in sin asks him to do so? Who do you think you are?

Giving thanks to God seems equally pointless. If we take it as read that God can’t act against his own nature, anything you get from God (good or bad) is inevitable. 

Prayers of praise are probably the silliest. God is omniscient - he knows how great he is and he knows you we’re going to tell him how great you think he is. Seems like a waste.

Boru

As a non-theist, I've thought about these 3 categories, and I've decided that thanksgiving is the only valid one of the 3.

If a god existed he wouldn't be thinking "hey, I gave Bob a Mercedes and he didn't thank me.  Well, fuck him, he gets a Vespa next time".  If a god didn't exist, there is no-one listening to the thanks, so why would it be valid?

I think that taking stock of what you are thankful for in life is a good exercise.  Thankfulness as a mindset (IMO) can reduce depression and increase empathy.
Reply
#12
RE: Young more likely to pray than over-55s - survey
(September 27, 2021 at 12:21 pm)HappySkeptic Wrote:
(September 26, 2021 at 5:58 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: ^^That.

Prayer can be very broadly divided into three categories: intercessory (asking for stuff); thanksgiving (thanking God for good things); and praise (telling God how great he is).

Intercessory prayer is essentially asking God to alter things on your behalf and at your request. This smacks of hubris - God is supposed to change the immutable divine plans simply because someone drowning in sin asks him to do so? Who do you think you are?

Giving thanks to God seems equally pointless. If we take it as read that God can’t act against his own nature, anything you get from God (good or bad) is inevitable. 

Prayers of praise are probably the silliest. God is omniscient - he knows how great he is and he knows you we’re going to tell him how great you think he is. Seems like a waste.

Boru

As a non-theist, I've thought about these 3 categories, and I've decided that thanksgiving is the only valid one of the 3.

If a god existed he wouldn't be thinking "hey, I gave Bob a Mercedes and he didn't thank me.  Well, fuck him, he gets a Vespa next time".  If a god didn't exist, there is no-one listening to the thanks, so why would it be valid?

I think that taking stock of what you are thankful for in life is a good exercise.  Thankfulness as a mindset (IMO) can reduce depression and increase empathy.

I agree that thankfulness in and of itself is a proper attitude. But thanking God for your good fortune is kind of like writing a thank-you note to gravity for keeping you on the ground.

Boru
‘I can’t be having with this.’ - Esmeralda Weatherwax
Reply
#13
RE: Young more likely to pray than over-55s - survey
Unfortunately, I thing humans ebb and flow. It is absolutely true, that if humans never changed their minds about religion or deities we'd be still stuck in the caves. But religion isn't going away. I'd rather have Martin Luther King Jr praying for me, than Osama Bin Laden praying for my death, much less acting on it.

I just wish the majority of my fellow humans would realize, that we only have one home, this planet, to live on. Short term dominance over others, will never constitute an eternity of dominance. Humans worldwide, need to accept the only winning combination to extend our species ride, is cooperation, not confrontation.
Reply
#14
RE: Young more likely to pray than over-55s - survey
I'm beginning to be sorry that he's dead.
[Image: extraordinarywoo-sig.jpg]
Reply
#15
RE: Young more likely to pray than over-55s - survey
(September 26, 2021 at 6:45 pm)vulcanlogician Wrote: The historical reason it promotes prayer is that Christianity was modelled after mystery cults that were popular in Roman times. As a selling point, these cults would often claim their pet god would do things for you. You also have prayer begging for God to intercede on one's behalf in Judaism, but it's nowhere near as obnoxious as what is described in the New Testament.

Judaism is more like: "Knock... and MAYBE... if God is in a good mood, it will be opened. But probably not." Jews I've communicated to about this site gratitude as the primary motivation for prayer. I'm not sure if this is true, or that's what they said because it sounds good.

I would say that praying to a god to bring you good luck and give you stuff and not give you disease is something very ancient.
Primitive humans did not know how nature operates. When some family member was ill, there was very little to do. Perhaps the priest/doctor would prepare a drink for you, rub something on you, say some magical words and he would say that the rest is up to the gods.

These days, if you get a cut, you clean the area with soap and apply ethanol or some antiseptic and put a band-aid.
I imagine that no european calls the priest for that.

When you get cancer, people know that there is significant chance they will die (depends on the cancer as well). They try every solution: going to the hospital and calling their priest and having family members pray.
Once medical science masters cancer, all types of cancer, the need for the priest will go down.

When you get a tooth infection, you go to your dentist, he’ll prescribe an antibiotic. Once the infection is eliminated, you can go back to him and he’ll repair your tooth.
I imagine that no european calls the priest for that.

I think that a lot of christians still sit at dinner time with their family and they thank god for putting food on their table.
The reality is that food is plentiful. If you are jobless and poor, there are social programs.
Nobody starves to death in european countries. ~200 y ago was a very different world for Europe.
Reply
#16
RE: Young more likely to pray than over-55s - survey
(September 26, 2021 at 4:50 am)Fake Messiah Wrote: I took a quick look at it.
The study mostly doesn't mention particular religion, and when it does it's Muslims.

Also, it doesn't mean that religion is on the rise but that among already religious people the younger pray more.

The questionnaire is too limited. They are only asking if they pray at least once a month and if they go to church.
It isn't about belief at all.
The elderly are more religious (christian) even if they don't pray and don't go to church.

The text says:
“Chris Hopkins added that there were "a few theories" as to why young people made up such a large proportion of the religious landscape.”

^^^^^This is false info.

The text says:
“It also found 49% of the younger age group attend a place of worship every month, compared with 16% of over-55s.”

^^^^^Show me a picture or video of these churches where the majority are 18 to 34 y of age.

The text says:
“"It is becoming increasingly clear that there is actually a growing spirituality in the nation," he said.”

^^^^^I did not see any indication of growth.
Also, this statistic is done during COVID-19, which isn’t the best time.


According to
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2016/...-religion/
“In March, driven by parishioner deaths and lack of interest, the U.K. Mennonites held their last collective service.”

“There have long been predictions that religion would fade from relevancy as the world modernizes, but all the recent surveys are finding that it’s happening startlingly fast. France will have a majority secular population soon. So will the Netherlands and New Zealand. The United Kingdom and Australia will soon lose Christian majorities.”
Reply
#17
RE: Young more likely to pray than over-55s - survey
(September 26, 2021 at 6:45 pm)vulcanlogician Wrote: The historical reason it promotes prayer is that Christianity was modelled after mystery cults that were popular in Roman times. As a selling point, these cults would often claim their pet god would do things for you. You also have prayer begging for God to intercede on one's behalf in Judaism, but it's nowhere near as obnoxious as what is described in the New Testament.

Judaism is more like: "Knock... and MAYBE... if God is in a good mood, it will be opened. But probably not." Jews I've communicated to about this site gratitude as the primary motivation for prayer. I'm not sure if this is true, or that's what they said because it sounds good.

Roman religion was always very transactional. Also, the mystery religions were more of a Graeco-Egyptian thing than a Roman one. Yes, plenty of Romans took part, but they eere always based in Greece or Hellenized Egypt.
Urbs Antiqua Fuit Studiisque Asperrima Belli

Home
Reply



Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Somebody came up to me offering to pray for me today ReptilianPeon 57 9378 October 8, 2021 at 10:16 am
Last Post: tackattack
  Muslim students less likely to be awarded top class degrees. Succubus#2 28 3102 March 22, 2020 at 6:02 am
Last Post: Belacqua
  Did Sai Baba deserve Nobel more than Mother Teresa? Fake Messiah 1 465 February 26, 2020 at 4:33 am
Last Post: The Valkyrie
  Is religion simply more about control than a god? GODZILLA 24 3696 January 8, 2019 at 11:58 am
Last Post: Drich
  God can make infinitely more special/valuable things than this universe blue grey brain 84 11903 December 17, 2018 at 7:15 pm
Last Post: The Grand Nudger
  Religious fundamentalists more likely to believe fake news OakTree500 30 4687 November 10, 2018 at 4:32 pm
Last Post: no one
  Baphomet more American than 10 Commandments Silver 13 1925 August 22, 2018 at 9:38 am
Last Post: The Grand Nudger
  Are introverts less likely to like organised religion? Der/die AtheistIn 8 1558 March 22, 2018 at 11:13 pm
Last Post: GODZILLA
  Get those kids o there! (Theists at Jacksonville try to pray Hurricane Irma away) causal code 20 7010 September 11, 2017 at 12:09 pm
Last Post: vorlon13
  Scientific evidence of God by an atheist (Where mankind is one likely type of God) ProgrammingGodJordan 324 59486 November 22, 2016 at 10:44 am
Last Post: Chas



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)