The Sects of Atheism

[The Grand Nudger]

Exactly so. I think it was more important to people from centuries back who, in meaningful ignorance of nature and in no way endowed with the potent tools we all rely on today, saw a gods role in their religion as conquering, taming, or subduing it. Standing above nature as we wished ourselves to be. That and, fwiw, they just couldn't imagine how nature accomplished any number of things the knowledge of which we take for granted from middle school onwards today. Nature was both more powerful and more terrible, and smaller..somehow.

Supernatural gods have a somewhat limited place in the evolution of the idea.

FWIW, I think it's an improvement on the idea, despite being fundamentally retrograde to our earliest (evidenced) apprehensions and stunted for centuries by christian (or theistic in general) superstition and political manouvering. That said, it's difficult to use it as a starting point to assert some of those functions that still resonate with the faithful today. It was explicitly built to subvert nature, which we no longer believe to be a credible thing. Not even god botherers..as you say, like yourself.

This thoughtful repositioning of what is and isn't taken to be credible is inconsistently applied, but whatever - that's being human. I think people's modern totems are cute. The only meaningful difference between myself and a theist in that regard is that I know what a totem is, and don't have to bullshit myself about what I'm doing. It works either way, always did...never depended on gods being real boys.

[Mister Agenda]

My reasons for not believing are a settled fact and not a 'cover story' and the insinuation that atheists are using 'cover stories' to hide their real reasons for not believing is insulting, uncharitable, and IMHO, trolling.

I hope you aren't referring in any way to me here. I thought I was demonstrating epistemic humility while at the same time suggesting to Helios that what he presented as fact was properly an opinion. The idea I was suggesting, that it is okay for people have different belief thresholds for various kinds of evidence,...that idea sounds very tolerant to me. I expected a little debate but intended no insult to Helios in particular or other contributors in general. Please help me understand how my words may have offended so I avoid doing so in the future.

Or if you you want to debate a little about whether it is in fact okay for people to have different belief thresholds....if you want.

If you want to defend Ahriman accusing atheists of using 'unconvinced due to insufficient evidence' as a cover story, have at. Convince me that atheists are being dishonest in asserting that as the reason for their disbelief on those occasions when they present that as their reasoning. And be sure to use reasoning that couldn't equally allow me to accuse theists of being dishonest about their own reasons for believing, or accept that it's just as justified to insinuate that theists are lying about that. Looking forward to your input.

Where you got the notion that I or Helios claimed that it's not okay for people to have different belief thresholds is a complete mystery to me.

[The Grand Nudger]

Why bother, theists lose their shit when you tell them there was never any specific reason or that it's not because you haven't seen evidence that has convinced you of something that made you an atheist, either. It's almost as if nothing that ends with -"and that's why I'm not in your club" is going to satisfy. As though the existence of an atheist is an argument against their god and to be handled by those same arguments, despite the plain and brute fact that none of them apply. I get it from a psychological point of view. We expect the assent of our peers, and feel as though we have cause to doubt ourselves when we don't possess it. God botherers are bothered by the notion of "genuine" atheism..as this thread swirls putridly around..because it doesn't fit in their universe. It suggests that they've got something wrong.

Hell, the reason that you don't find me in a church...when you don't find me in a church..which is far less often than some people might imagine - doesn't even have anything to do with whether or not gods exist. I could be dead wrong about gods not existing, and that wouldn't matter. It doesn't change anything for me. Just as...I strongly suspect, figuring out they were wrong about christ wouldn't actually matter much to a given christian.

[Ahriman]

What kind of atheist goes to church?

[Astreja]

What kind of atheist goes to church?

Only time *I* ever go is if I'm attending a wedding or funeral, or if I'm performing in a musical event there (Remembrance Day service, music festival, etc.)  I don't stand for Gospel readings or bow my head or recite anything.

[arewethereyet]

What kind of atheist goes to church?

One that isn't closed minded and who realizes that certain church services are important to those who are important to them...such as Astreja mentioned...weddings and deadings and such.

[Ahriman]

I would think a sincere atheist would refuse to attend a church for any reason, but whatever. Maybe I'm wrong.

[The Grand Nudger]

What kind of atheist goes to church?

A person who supports non profit food banks, soup kitchens, homeless shelters, and agricultural outreach programs.

Other people too, I'm sure.  I'm not the only atheist I've ever seen working the grill at a church fundraiser.  In fact......I find it harder to locate people who believe what that same church tells them they should - and their pastors do too.....such is the focus of their every sermon of late.

Churches, to me, are not temples to gods.  They're places full of people who either need or could help.

Whenever you start thinking you might be wrong about something, lean into that.

[The Architect Of Fate]

I would think a sincere atheist would refuse to attend a church for any reason, but whatever. Maybe I'm wrong.

Willingness to to church says nothing about whether or not a person believes in god

[Nay_Sayer]

I would think a sincere atheist would refuse to attend a church for any reason, but whatever. Maybe I'm wrong.

You having complaints about others sincerity is quite amusing.