Destruction of self confidence

[emjay]

  But just to be clear, were your parents atheists or not? 

No, no...belief wasn't really a contentious issue.  It was race, and, broadly, the politics of race and their bleedover into a more general hardcore social conservatism.

So what can I say? The first obvious thing is that I can have a relationship like this with my parents because I still live with them, whereas you don't, so that's necessarily going to lead to differences in the type of the relationship. My kind of relationship with them is basically friendship, we joke around together and talk a lot, but that obviously is not really possible if you don't live with them. You could also say my life has kind of moulded more towards what they would have wanted... or as we're putting it, that which produces the less conflict and thus potentially cognitive dissonance, ie when I was younger I went to gay clubs a lot more than I do now. But that said, it's not all been one way, as like I said, little steps; I remember going to my first Pride march and thinking about how I was going to broach the subject with my parents... I could either be my usual unassertive self, or I could be assertive... I chose the latter and said firmly and matter of factly, leaving no room for argument 'I'm going to this event', rather than basically asking permission, and surprisingly my dad accepted it without argument. So I guess what I'm saying is we've both compromised in our little ways, over the years. I don't know if that can relate at all to how you relate to your daughter?

It does.  Right now we're at the point where I remember to check myself when I would normally say "go get your sisters" or "where are the girls".  On her end, we've had to have a talk about how not every instance of someone using the wrong pronouns is meant to be or should be taken as a personal slight.  That, sometimes, it's just the way that a person talks, has always talked, unthinkingly speaks, or...for what it's worth..that they don't know and there's no reason they would.  That a cashier at the grocery store isn't insulting her gender identity.  You could say that she and I have made some compromise between us - but this doesn't reflect my own internal state.  I'd always rather it not be so and still hold out hope that it isn't.   She doesn't explode when I instinctively call her baby girl, and I try to remember not to do that.  

As to your parents, and trying to find that bridge, in my case I will never be a traditional success story for my parent's sake, eg I'm never going to get married or give them grandkids, and they know and accept that... but they still love me, even if our family line ends right here, as they've said. All four of my grandparents are dead, so we've been through all the pain of that, and are now our own little unit (as well as my sister, who doesn't live at home) just as how you're talking about how it will be once they have passed. That little unit though, I think in some sense makes you stronger... ie this may be the end of our family line, but we've only got each other now, and going through all that grieving, and helping my parents grieve, brought us closer together. So for one thing, you've got your own family unit now, and I'm sure your parents are very proud of you for that (more than I could ever provide as I said). But if there are still other bridges to mend, I don't know if anything I've said can help? Parents love their kids, it's as simple as that really; I'm no success story, religious expectations or otherwise, but I know my parents love me... I'm sure yours do too. And even if you can't mend some bridges, as I said, you've got your own little unit now to think about. One of the last memories I have of one of my grandads was him looking at me disapprovingly for interrupting a conversation... I wish I could mend that bridge, but I can't... but the focus is now on our little unit.

That's pretty much where I find myself with my parents  There's compromise between me and mine, but none between them and myself on the issues that put distance between us.  Hell, you mentioned my having kids - and yeah...that's part and parcel of how I was brought up and you'd think it would be a success condition..but..I gave them the wrong sort of kid right off the bat...and my next (and conceptually better) attempt isn't looking like it panned out all that great from their point of view either.  Spoiled, entitled, head buried in electronics rather than "hard work"..and far too socially liberal.  Heaven forfend I have to add queer to the list.  I'd say I'd never hear the end of it...but....

I suppose that, in the end, it may just be me wanting something I can't have.  Delicious irony.  It's incredibly frustrating to want the approval of a person who's approval is predicate on doing and being things you can't do or be.  Particularly uncompromising people, and especially when you know that there's love, and lots of it, going in both directions all the same.  Then, there's the added kink of easily seeing my own kids and myself in this scenario in the not so distant future.

Right, thanks for clarifying... I understand now. I'm so sorry you're going through that with your parents. Although we've been talking about the parallels between our experience, your experience definitely seems much more extreme, since I've never been basically estranged, or as good as, from any of my family; it sounds horrible. My grandparents for instance never knew, as far as I know, that I was either gay or an atheist... it just never came up, so though there was physical distance - as there is with you and your parents, there was never any rift with them, and likewise, I don't think my 'unfinished business' of a disapproving look from my grandad can remotely compare to what you're describing. So with that in mind, since I know this is a hard time for you, and I don't want to give you bad advice or false hope, all I can say is the following is just my opinion and please take it with a pinch of salt... but maybe in the end, feeling their own mortality, they might actually surprise you and meet you half way, since death and illness often has a way of changing people's perspectives and making them see what's important... but even if they don't, then maybe you can still have some peace/closure - in regard to 'want[ing] the approval of a person who's approval is predicate on doing and being things you can't do or be.' - by mentally separating them from the source of their negative judgment/prejudice, whatever you think it may be, just as I kind of have to do with my dad, separating him from his Christian beliefs.