Russia and Ukraine

[arewethereyet]

The western arrogance cracks me up. Still, the UN is useless, the USA abandoned Ukraine and ran away just like it did against the heroic Taliban.

---

Mighty warriors heroically chops off the nose and ears of a teenage girl so villainous and reprobate as to try to escape a forced marriage, to him.

Another epic feat of Taliban valor truly worthy of poetry for the ages.

---

Yes, blame the west for what Russia is doing.  Crawl back under your rock.

In this case, blaming the west, or particular the US, for what Russia is doing is spot on.   What Russia is doing is entirely reasonable under the circumstances.    We would be doing, and indeed have done, the same thing when we found ourselves facing a situation that is analogous to what Russia face now, as during the Cuban missile crisis.

The difference is soviet Union then, in the same role as where we find ourselves now, behaved more reasonably and respectably, and less hysterically, then we are doing now.

No contrived, self serving concept of rights can overshadow the fact that when nations are faced with critical strategic threat that can nullify its ability to act as an independent power, and it can address such a threat effectively by military means and no other, it will address it by military means.

Don’t put nations that can address critical threat by military means under critical threat and then deny it any other means to address it.    We heed and hawed and spewed all sorts of flimsy bullshit to deny Russia the means to address it by non military means.  So here we are.

Just because ideologues rule american political discourse and lawyers rule american society, and we think we are so great, we think our ideologues and lawyers will overawe other country’s strategists as well.

Blah, blah, blah.

[Anomalocaris]

Mighty warriors heroically chops off the nose and ears of a teenage girl so villainous and reprobate as to try to escape a forced marriage, to him.

Another epic feat of Taliban valor truly worthy of poetry for the ages.

---

In this case, blaming the west, or particular the US, for what Russia is doing is spot on.   What Russia is doing is entirely reasonable under the circumstances.    We would be doing, and indeed have done, the same thing when we found ourselves facing a situation that is analogous to what Russia face now, as during the Cuban missile crisis.

The difference is soviet Union then, in the same role as where we find ourselves now, behaved more reasonably and respectably, and less hysterically, then we are doing now.

No contrived, self serving concept of rights can overshadow the fact that when nations are faced with critical strategic threat that can nullify its ability to act as an independent power, and it can address such a threat effectively by military means and no other, it will address it by military means.

Don’t put nations that can address critical threat by military means under critical threat and then deny it any other means to address it.    We heed and hawed and spewed all sorts of flimsy bullshit to deny Russia the means to address it by non military means.  So here we are.

Just because ideologues rule american political discourse and lawyers rule american society, and we think we are so great, we think our ideologues and lawyers will overawe other country’s strategists as well.

Blah, blah, blah.

yeah yeah yeah, trumpian “we are always right and we are geniuses”.

[WinterHold]

Yes, blame the west for what Russia is doing.  Crawl back under your rock.

Let's be honest, awhy: the American "lying" to their allies is not just shameful; it is epic beyond belief; and an indication that the U.S dominance over the world is finished.

It's the end of an an era. The Afghans saw it, and now the Ukrainian president is also seeing it. 

Though, I expect atomic weapons will be used at the end of this round.

[Duty]

Whilst I oppose invasive warfare 100, let us not forget that Ukraine of late has hardly been a paragon of fair democratic conduct...regime rather than government? Yup. From dec 2021:

European Union leaders have reportedly expressed concern over restrictions on one of Kiev’s top politicians and sanctions on domestic news outlets.

A top Ukrainian news site has reported that EU officials have called on Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky to release Viktor Medvedchuk, the leader of the country’s largest opposition party. The politician was placed under house arrest earlier this year.

Strana, which was banned in the country in February, reported on Thursday that European heads of state who met with Zelensky in Brussels last week demanded he rescind restrictive measures on political opposition in the country, including lifting the sanctions on media critical of his government.

https://www.rt.com/russia/544152-eu-ukra...pposition/

[Anomalocaris]

all this bellyaching about whether ukraine was a democracy and whether it’s policy expresses the will of its people reveals a naive and delusional detachment from fundamental reality what it takes to conduct business as a nation that wishes to secure its ability to conduct independent foreign policy.

The bedrock reality is no powerful nation that wishes to pursue a independent foreign policy, whether itself can be classified as democracy in any way shape or form, would care whether or not another country is a democracy or not if that country ‘s policies threaten to neuter its own nuclear deterrence.    If it believe it can’t cause that country to reverse its policy by other means, it would most certainly resort to doing it by force.

credible nuclear deterrence is considered the fundamental long term guarantor of a nation’s existence and ability to conduct independent foreign policy, and once acquired is not to be given up under any circumstance, and to be secured at any price.

[The Architect Of Fate]

Let's be honest, awhy: the American "lying" to their allies is not just shameful; it is epic beyond belief; and an indication that the U.S dominance over the world is finished.

Lol not even close 

It's the end of an an era. The Afghans saw it, and now the Ukrainian president is also seeing it. 

No, it's not no matter how much you want it to be the case because you have a hate boner for the west 

Though, I expect atomic weapons will be used at the end of this round.

No ones using nukes moron 

[WinterHold]

all this bellyaching about whether ukraine was a democracy and whether it’s policy expresses the will of its people reveals a naive and delusional detachment from fundamental reality what it takes to conduct business as a nation that wishes to secure its ability to conduct independent foreign policy.

The bedrock reality is no powerful nation that wishes to pursue a independent foreign policy, whether itself can be classified as democracy in any way shape or form, would care whether or not another country is a democracy or not if that country ‘s policies threaten to neuter its own nuclear deterrence.    If it believe it can’t cause that country to reverse its policy by other means, it would most certainly resort to doing it by force.

credible nuclear deterrence is considered the fundamental long term guarantor of a nation’s existence and ability to conduct independent foreign policy, and once acquired is not to be given up under any circumstance, and to be secured at any price.

The world is a jungle, and that with the stronger sword rules. America doesn't rule the world -for example- because it is a democracy as it claims; but because it has the largest stockpile of atomic weapons. 

Sometimes people forget that, Ukraine shot itself when it gave away its nuclear arsenal in the past. They thought the west would protect them, but the west and America broke their promise.

[HappySkeptic]

all this bellyaching about whether ukraine was a democracy and whether it’s policy expresses the will of its people reveals a naive and delusional detachment from fundamental reality what it takes to conduct business as a nation that wishes to secure its ability to conduct independent foreign policy.

The bedrock reality is no powerful nation that wishes to pursue a independent foreign policy, whether itself can be classified as democracy in any way shape or form, would care whether or not another country is a democracy or not if that country ‘s policies threaten to neuter its own nuclear deterrence.    If it believe it can’t cause that country to reverse its policy by other means, it would most certainly resort to doing it by force.

credible nuclear deterrence is considered the fundamental long term guarantor of a nation’s existence and ability to conduct independent foreign policy, and once acquired is not to be given up under any circumstance, and to be secured at any price.

Oh fuck right off, you Russian apologist.  Go back to watching Tucker Carlson.

If you believe that it is good and right to invade a democratic country because it is changing its foreign policy, then we have nothing to discuss - ever.

[The Architect Of Fate]

LONG LIVE UKRAINE!!!!

---

The world is a jungle, and that with the stronger sword rules. 

Bullshit

America doesn't rule the world -for example- because it is a democracy as it claims; but because it has the largest stockpile of atomic weapons. 

Bullshit

Sometimes people forget that, Ukraine shot itself when it gave away its nuclear arsenal in the past. They thought the west would protect them, but the west and America broke their promise.

Bullshit

[Anomalocaris]

all this bellyaching about whether ukraine was a democracy and whether it’s policy expresses the will of its people reveals a naive and delusional detachment from fundamental reality what it takes to conduct business as a nation that wishes to secure its ability to conduct independent foreign policy.

The bedrock reality is no powerful nation that wishes to pursue a independent foreign policy, whether itself can be classified as democracy in any way shape or form, would care whether or not another country is a democracy or not if that country ‘s policies threaten to neuter its own nuclear deterrence.    If it believe it can’t cause that country to reverse its policy by other means, it would most certainly resort to doing it by force.

credible nuclear deterrence is considered the fundamental long term guarantor of a nation’s existence and ability to conduct independent foreign policy, and once acquired is not to be given up under any circumstance, and to be secured at any price.

Oh fuck right off, you Russian apologist.  Go back to watching Tucker Carlson.

If you believe that it is good and right to invade a democratic country because it is changing its foreign policy, then we have nothing to discuss - ever.

Hate to break this to you, democratic form of government does not give a state carte blanche to do what it wants to threaten the existential interest of its neighbor, even if the neighbor is an autocracy.   Even less does denocracy give a state immunity from the blow backs if it willing acts as a pawn in another state’s quest to bring down its own big neighbor,  just as virtue does not confer immunity from gravity. 

So it is totally immaterial whether it is good or right to invade or destroy a democracy if it is needed to preserve a country’s existential interests,  it almost certainly will happen, just as it is immaterial whether it is right or good for gravity to pull a virtuous person who slipped off a cliff to his death. it will happen.

if a small democracy threaten a large autocracy’s nuclear deterrence, and will not back down, it will be road kill just as surely as a virtuous person slipping off of a cliff will plunge to death.

guess what, if a small democracy for some reason threaten a large democracy’s nuclear deterrence, and will not back down, it will be road kill just as surely as of it threaten a large autocracies nuclear deterrence. 

guess what did not need to happen, but happed because we, good old USA, all edged champion of democracy, thought we see an cheap opportunity to take down russia by nullifying her nuclear deterrence and thought ukraine would be no big loss of it doesn’t work out?

 pushing the independent Ukraine to join nato so as to threaten the large autocracy’s nuclear deterrence.   in fact we did so precisely to threaten russia’s nuclear deterrence. 

and now we bellyache about Russia reacting violently. 

so fuck you too.

if you think gravity is not worth discussing because it will pull the virtuous as well as the wicked to their deaths, or it is now worth talking to one who would discuss such a gravity, 

then thank you.

you saved me a few seconds that i might otherwise have wasted on a wish thinking, self-righteous delusional moron.