Russia and Ukraine

[arewethereyet]

I had been reading this on a daily basis.  I learned a lot, and said as much, from Nudger and Thump.

Amolocramapotamus or whatever, thinks he's an authority on everyfuckingthing and for me adds nothing.

And you are generally here to argue.  So, learning ceased when it became the back and forth between you two.

Anomalocaris.   please learn to spell.

I may know a lot more about a lot more things than you, but that’s just because of you, not me.    You have to be pretty damn ignorant to think what I know constitutes “everyfuckingthing”.

You have already stated that you are smarter than the other members here.  Remember - something to the effect of 'I thought I was just an average guy till I came to this forum'?

I don't give a flying damn how you spell your name and wasn't going to take the time to look it up.

And you just said it again - you think you are smarter than others...you may well be on certain things, why don't you and Helios go play?

You have trashed this thread...please move along.

[The Architect Of Fate]

Considering he started this thread he doesn't have to go anywhere.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Well, Dunbas is not exactly Russia yet, and the conflict in Dunbas is being portrayed as something of war of liberation for ethnic Russians.    So the drafting in Dunbas has more of a drafting peasants into a heroic partisan war of liberation flavor than drafting soldiers into a regular army to fight a conventional war on foreign soil flavor.

So to people that really matters, that is the Dunbasians and the Russian audience steeped in the mythology of the great patriotic war where crudely equipped partisans supposedly made German life behind the lines a living hell,  bolt action rifles probably is actually a bonus as far as stirring up popular sentiments go.    

It allows the Russian side to play the two sided melodrama of being both victim and hero at the same time.

Which, incidentally, is exactly what the Ukrainian side has been doing since shortly after the start of the war as well.

It reeks of a mixture of weaksauce and bullshit to me. If they're liberating the Donbas, why don't they have the forces to do so, such that they must draft raw recruits and throw them untrained into battle? Giving them rifles designed in 1891 only underscores the military weakness of the RF. Oh, that's right: they've had their asses handed to them, the Russians have, and can't "liberate" their "persecuted" subjects -- uh, brethren. I wonder why the Ukrainians have been fighting so long and so hard?

I say level the playing field, and have the Italians donate some Mannlicher-Carcanos to the Ukrainians.

[arewethereyet]

Considering he started this thread he doesn't have to go anywhere.

Are you really that dense...I suggested taking the debate between the two of you elsewhere.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Quote

Several Donbas draftees have been issued with a rifle called a Mosin, which was developed in the late 19th century and went out of production decades ago, according to three people who saw conscripts from the separatist region using the weapon.

Unquote

A bit of ignorance here..

The rifle they are describing is either the Mosin Nagant 91/30 or M44 carbine. While these are older rifles - with lousy finish - they are none the less a capable battlefield rifle. Additionally - it uses a more powerful cartridge 7.62x 54 than the AK47 uses, 7.62 x 39. 

Sure it is a bolt action - but it is capable of making long range shots an AK47 could not.

I have owned both - and would not be afraid of trusting one to work as needed....

As Brian has already noted, a weapon is only as good as the man using it. But let's face it, using a bolt-action in large-scale combat in 2022 is not exactly cutting-edge.

---

Scraping the bottom of the barrel. The Russians would be making a laughingstock of themselves were it not for the fact that even in their incompetence they're killing thousands ... including their own.

Remember when i said that manpower was to russian leaders always just another resource, an expendable one at that?
If the "Mosin" rifle mentioned is the Mosin Nagant then....why not giving them consripts some clubs?

A modern army like Russia's needs firewood to cook its food!

---

Unless this war go nuclear, no one thinks this war will take a toll on Russian demographics similar to WWII.

What it will take a toll on is Putin's domestic support. How much? That remains to be seen. But bodybags are hard to hide.

---

The idea that workers' rights required communism is just.....Wow 

Yeah, stretch you mind a bit,  you have nothing but naivety, idiot complacency and moronic self righteousness to lose.

Seriously, you think the upper leadership of the USSR gave two shits rubbed together about workers?

[The Architect Of Fate]

Are you really that dense...I suggested taking the debate between the two of you elsewhere.

Are you? Because he doesn't have to do that either. He can argue with me on his thread if he likes especially as it's relevant to the subject of the thread 

[Thumpalumpacus]

So why aren't either of you covering them? Instead of criticizing Anomalocaris and myself for having an argument about foreign policy which I might add is central to this whole conflict.

I've been trying to provide actual news, but no one seems to answer me -- except Anom spewing more talking-points that are vapid and past shelf-life.

[The Architect Of Fate]

Quote

Several Donbas draftees have been issued with a rifle called a Mosin, which was developed in the late 19th century and went out of production decades ago, according to three people who saw conscripts from the separatist region using the weapon.

Unquote

A bit of ignorance here..

The rifle they are describing is either the Mosin Nagant 91/30 or M44 carbine. While these are older rifles - with lousy finish - they are none the less a capable battlefield rifle. Additionally - it uses a more powerful cartridge 7.62x 54 than the AK47 uses, 7.62 x 39. 

Sure it is a bolt action - but it is capable of making long range shots an AK47 could not.

I have owned both - and would not be afraid of trusting one to work as needed....

As Brian has already noted, a weapon is only as good as the man using it. But let's face it, using a bolt-action in large-scale combat in 2022 is not exactly cutting-edge.

---

Remember when i said that manpower was to russian leaders always just another resource, an expendable one at that?
If the "Mosin" rifle mentioned is the Mosin Nagant then....why not giving them consripts some clubs?

A modern army like Russia's needs firewood to cook its food!

---

Unless this war go nuclear, no one thinks this war will take a toll on Russian demographics similar to WWII.

What it will take a toll on is Putin's domestic support. How much? That remains to be seen. But bodybags are hard to hide.

---

Yeah, stretch you mind a bit,  you have nothing but naivety, idiot complacency and moronic self righteousness to lose.

Seriously, you think the upper leadership of the USSR gave two shits rubbed together about workers?

True huge causalities are not very good for a leader even an autocratic leader like Putin's popularity and indeed the Soviets stopped caring about the workers from pretty much day one . Lenin never intended to enact Marx's ideas and only wanted power for himself.

---

So why aren't either of you covering them? Instead of criticizing Anomalocaris and myself for having an argument about foreign policy which I might add is central to this whole conflict.

I've been trying to provide actual news, but no one seems to answer me -- except Anom spewing more talking-points that are vapid and past shelf-life.

Yup and you do a good job. Sorry I have not engaged more with your posts

---

Well, Dunbas is not exactly Russia yet, and the conflict in Dunbas is being portrayed as something of war of liberation for ethnic Russians.    So the drafting in Dunbas has more of a drafting peasants into a heroic partisan war of liberation flavor than drafting soldiers into a regular army to fight a conventional war on foreign soil flavor.

So to people that really matters, that is the Dunbasians and the Russian audience steeped in the mythology of the great patriotic war where crudely equipped partisans supposedly made German life behind the lines a living hell,  bolt action rifles probably is actually a bonus as far as stirring up popular sentiments go.    

It allows the Russian side to play the two sided melodrama of being both victim and hero at the same time.

Which, incidentally, is exactly what the Ukrainian side has been doing since shortly after the start of the war as well.

It reeks of a mixture of weaksauce and bullshit to me. If they're liberating the Donbas, why don't they have the forces to do so, such that they must draft raw recruits and throw them untrained into battle? Giving them rifles designed in 1891 only underscores the military weakness of the RF. Oh, that's right: they've had their asses handed to them, the Russians have, and can't "liberate" their "persecuted" subjects -- uh, brethren. I wonder why the Ukrainians have been fighting so long and so hard?

I say level the playing field, and have the Italians donate some Mannlicher-Carcanos to the Ukrainians.

Yeah, that doesn't sound like an advanced military plan. It sounds like something you think up at the minute when the latest causality reports and you realize just how fucked you are.

[Thumpalumpacus]

3. FYI funny how I'm neither an adult nor knowledgeable but Thump a guy you say is knowledgable pretty much agrees with me on Imperialism and Sovereignty and has pretty much echoed my points earlier in this thread 

The difference is that I'm not injecting my opinions on capitalism, imperialism, communism, or any other -ism, because people are actually dying. Fighting and dying, as we sit here at our keyboards spouting opinions.

If you'd like to start a thread about imperialism I'll be happy to contribute, as I do have opinions about that topic. I just don't think that, as much as it may have influenced the lead-up to this shitshow, that it is the real story here.

People are fighting, dying, and being murdered. I think we all understand that power-politics is underneath it all, and I think we all agree the common folk dying over power-politics is a shit-sandwich for anyone involved. I think that in this story, the people involved are just as important if not more so. 4 million refugees. What should we be doing about that? Further Russian aggression -- what should we be doing about that? That's what I think matters right now.

Whether unipolarism, bipolarism, or multipolarism is a better global system is not, I think, useful to the discussion about the war at hand, and how to contain it so that it doesn't expand.

But that's just me and my lil ole opinion

[The Architect Of Fate]

Not sure if this has been posted yet. But a mass grave in Bucha has been uncovered containing possibly 280-300 corpses 

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/4/2/...kyiv-mayor

---

3. FYI funny how I'm neither an adult nor knowledgeable but Thump a guy you say is knowledgable pretty much agrees with me on Imperialism and Sovereignty and has pretty much echoed my points earlier in this thread 

The difference is that I'm not injecting my opinions on capitalism, imperialism, communism, or any other -ism, because people are actually dying. Fighting and dying, as we sit here at our keyboards spouting opinions.

If you'd like to start a thread about imperialism I'll be happy to contribute, as I do have opinions about that topic. I just don't think that, as much as it may have influenced the lead-up to this shitshow, that it is the real story here.

People are fighting, dying, and being murdered. I think we all understand that power-politics is underneath it all, and I think we all agree the common folk dying over power-politics is a shit-sandwich for anyone involved. I think that in this story, the people involved are just as important if not more so. 4 million refugees. What should we be doing about that? Further Russian aggression -- what should we be doing about that? That's what I think matters right now.

Whether unipolarism, bipolarism, or multipolarism is a better global system is not, I think, useful to the discussion about the war at hand, and how to contain it so that it doesn't expand.

But that's just me and my lil ole opinion

I understand and i respect your opinion