Russia and Ukraine

[The Architect Of Fate]

We don't get a discount. We take it. We get it free.

This being a forum filled with skeptics no doubt you will supply documentation for that claim, even as I did with the status of the US as an oil producer.

His evidence is one article written by a nutcase who has a hate hard-on for the US .....

[Thumpalumpacus]

@Belacqua's "source" doesn't actually support her claim. The closest it gets is asserting that US forces remain in productive oil areas of Syria. It is essentially a polemic that doesn't assert what she says it does.

[Thumpalumpacus]

The US Army used to have a recruiting slogan: "An Army of One".

So that's 900 armies, I'll have you know!

Ah, the official government figure. We know that those are always accurate. 

How many support staff, CIA agents, hired mercenaries, and other personnel are not included in that number, one wonders. 

And of course you're aware of the fact that the US is partnering with the long-suffering Kurds in that region, so the numbers of human beings working to control the region is significantly more than 900. This is obvious. 

Then there is the air support which is based in nearby countries. Including Israel, which routinely bombs Syria. 

The US gets the oil, though.

Let's see your numbers. Source them from unbiased reportage.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

The US Army used to have a recruiting slogan: "An Army of One".

So that's 900 armies, I'll have you know!

Ah, the official government figure. We know that those are always accurate. 

How many support staff, CIA agents, hired mercenaries, and other personnel are not included in that number, one wonders. 

And of course you're aware of the fact that the US is partnering with the long-suffering Kurds in that region, so the numbers of human beings working to control the region is significantly more than 900. This is obvious. 

Then there is the air support which is based in nearby countries. Including Israel, which routinely bombs Syria. 

The US gets the oil, though.

In case you’re interest, here’s what’s really happening:

https://www.polygraph.info/a/fact-check-...43431.html

Boru

[Deesse23]

Ah, the official government figure. We know that those are always accurate. 

How many support staff, CIA agents, hired mercenaries, and other personnel are not included in that number, one wonders. 

And of course you're aware of the fact that the US is partnering with the long-suffering Kurds in that region, so the numbers of human beings working to control the region is significantly more than 900. This is obvious. 

Then there is the air support which is based in nearby countries. Including Israel, which routinely bombs Syria. 

The US gets the oil, though.

In case you’re interest, here’s what’s really happening:

https://www.polygraph.info/a/fact-check-...43431.html

Boru

Those facts dont count for Bel. Polygraph is produced by Voice of America, the OFFICIAL DC outlet. Thus: Those facts are propaganda, PER DEFINITION. No matter if those facts are actually true, they arent! Dont you understand!?

You need more "unbiased" sources.
Example: The Austrian politician/journalist whose wedding ceremony Putin attended (and whom he gave earrings for 50.000€).

[The Architect Of Fate]

In case you’re interest, here’s what’s really happening:

https://www.polygraph.info/a/fact-check-...43431.html

Boru

Those facts dont count for Bel. Polygraph is produced by Voice of America, the OFFICIAL DC outlet. Thus: Those facts are propaganda, PER DEFINITION. No matter if those facts are actually true, they arent! Dont you understand!?

You need more "unbiased" sources.
Example: The Austrian politician/journalist whose wedding ceremony Putin attended (and whom he gave earrings for 50.000€).

Or articles by a guy who literally wrote a book called "AMERICA's EVIL EMPIRE" because that person is totally unbiased.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

In case you’re interest, here’s what’s really happening:

https://www.polygraph.info/a/fact-check-...43431.html

Boru

Those facts dont count for Bel. Polygraph is produced by Voice of America, the OFFICIAL DC outlet. Thus: Those facts are propaganda, PER DEFINITION. No matter if those facts are actually true, they arent! Dont you understand!?

You need more "unbiased" sources.
Example: The Austrian politician/journalist whose wedding ceremony Putin attended (and whom he gave earrings for 50.000€).

Bel must be lonely, trapped at the bottom of that disinformation silo.

Boru

[arewethereyet]

Newsflash - Bel hates the US.

That is all.

[The Architect Of Fate]

Yup an unfortunate victim of ADS (American Derangement Syndrome)

[Leonardo17]

They sincerely believe to be doing everything so right and nothing goes right and they just don’t get it.

This seems like a fair description of US military policy in the last few decades. 

With the exception of some realist cynics at the very top, most military people probably believe that what they are doing is right. Yet the results seem not to bear that out. Look at our great success in Afghanistan, for example. 

For people who still sincerely hold to the faith that the US brings democracy and freedom to other countries, it certainly does appear that "nothing goes right." 

For the people who actually make the decisions, however, there are probably different plans in place. For them, two outcomes are acceptable: 

1) the leaders of a country become obedient to US demands and let us control their economy, or

2) the country is thrown into chaos, the economy goes to shambles, and there is no possibility of that country challenging US hegemony in any way. 

Examples of the second goal include Libya, for example. 

Option number one is possible if Ukraine manages to come out of the war without being nuked to ashes. In that case it will certainly be under a crushing debt burden. This is the way the IMF, the World Bank, and the US like it. Managing the debt means austerity for the Ukrainian people, and forced privatization of their industry (which means that the profits go to international corporations, not Ukrainians). 

Option number two is always a possibility, if the US continues to refuse negotiations. The US government currently seems willing to fight the war until the last Ukrainian is dead. A strange sort of victory, but it achieves US foreign policy goals.

As I said, I live in a place in which this populist propaganda is accepted by many (or at least seemingly). So you don’t need to tell me. I could even go into the masonic conspiracy of Satan or the theory of great replacement if you wanted me to. It’s the same story. With one great devil. In your version Putin is the great savior. In the Iranian version, their pharaoh is their savior. In our version, well, I won’t even go into it but I can sum up by saying it’s similar to the Nazi ideology (with some being the great enemies and some being saviors by birth). So people like these stories, you seem to like them too.
   In the case of the US. Sometime I really feel like asking about your high school education. Because my knowledge on these issues date from the mid-90’s. The US was a mostly isolationist and conservative country. They didn’t take much land from anyone other than taking North America from the indigenous people. They went into WWI after Bismark sunk one of their ships and so they went in “To protect democracy and human rights”. This scenario repeated itself in WWII. Than They started the Korean war the counter the growing influence of Communism in that region. They tried to do the same in Vietnam but they didn’t succeed where the French before them had failed (and I don’t believe that war to be a just war).
   Than there was the successions of wars in Iraq. Some people fervently opposed it. But let’s stay on this subject for a while. I am not a monarchist. But a monarch is still a ruler with a degree of legitimacy. I even read articles that explained how this seemingly outdated type of government happened to work quite well with mostly tribal and sectarian (and primitive) societies of the Arab world. So If someone attacked Morocco or Jordan, I think I could get very angry very fast. Because these are perhaps unjust societies, but they are not tyrannical or highly oppressive to their people, they are legitimate because the primitive Arab or Barbari societies seem to get along well with it (or at least it looks so at the moment) and most of all, they are not a threat to anyone. Not even to Isral (in the case of Jordan).
   The Baas Regime is different. You have the right to demonstrate. But if they take you in the street, they will torture you, they will kill you, and if you are lucky your family will be able to bribe some official to recover your body. I lived in Syria at the time of the Father of the current dictator. The land seemed to be functioning in either one way or the other way. It was like a Khadafi like socialist inspired / Arab nationalist ideology. But I cannot say anything of that progress was reflected to society. And I happens to know about some of the cheap archaeological projects of Saddam Hussein who wanted to show himself as the new “Sargon the Great”. For that he did some historical restorations of some old monuments that were entirely cheap, superficial and even unrealistic. (This A.K. party [translated P.F. Party to English] in my country has similar projects that everybody is laughing at).
    So I wouldn’t also support a military intervention on China or on Say former Yugoslavia. Because Even Mao (who murdered 50 million of his own people) managed to create some sort of progress for his people and to save the Chinese from Opium. Tito on the other hand, made Yugoslavia into one of the great powers of its time. So these are what I would call the “Real” dictators. (As you Know the first real dictator was Julius Caesar who did many things for the good of the Roman Empire despite all of his megalomaniac tendencies). So the question I am asking is (and it’s a Historical question) what did Khadafi or the Baas movement ever do for their people?
- The answer is nothing. They are just “socialists” who in reality have done nothing different than the Mullah’s of Iran (and even went to war with them over some superficial issues).
   Back to history: George Bush went to war with Saddam went he invaded Koweit, An Ally of America. SO who is the aggressor here? – He is. Than 9/11 happened. Again, many people opposed it. I opposed it. But George W. Bush invaded Irak and Afghanistan because these were countries that were known to have supported Osama Bin Laden. Than Biden had to leave Afghanistan because U.S. Tax payers couldn’t keep financing this war for centuries to come. And frankly I don’t know how and if this issue could have been resolved in a better manner. With Pakistan Backing the Taliban etc.
   I think, that the Son of Ahmad Shah Massoud, Ahmad Massoud should be supported more by the international community. But there are times when I wonder if more weapon and more war could or could not bring anything better for the Afghan people.
   Anyway. I don’t see anything Satanic in these events. There is nothing angelical either. But the U.S. is not a colonial power like the former French or British Empires. The leftists of the past hated the U.S. for its imperialistic policies. But you cannot utter those words. You can’t make the same accusation. Socialists were opponents of capitalism and liberal economy. Their believed themselves to be in possession of a better economic model so they criticized the west as “imperialistic and capitalistic”. The word “capitalist” was almost an insult for them. So that was the spirit of the time.
   Now how does Putin make accusation in todays world? Russia is the most unequal society of the world. It is seeking the plunder mineral riches of Africa through the use of its mercenaries, it clearly has imperialistic goals all over the world (just like China) and there is nothing trullu socialist or anti-imperialistic left in any of these countries. Their narrative is more like “The west is plundering the world. So so shall I”. Is this even an ideology?
   - No they are just incorporating some remnants of the old socialist ideology and they they are sitting and talking about the West being this, or the west being that. This isn’t even a serious way of talking. In fact they are only talking to their state-controlled media who in turn is talking the their masses who can’t even say “No to the war in Ukraine” for fear of being sent to detention colonies. 2 millions Russian’s have fled their own country since February. SO I don’t know what to tell you. Just keep the faith than