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Russia and Ukraine
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Since 'Murican conservatives are so in love with Putin, they'll naturally want the same training for students here. No more having to send them to military school.
"Never trust a fox. Looks like a dog, behaves like a cat."
~ Erin Hunter 
Retreat works/is not a fake
Bel:"Smart russian move" Retreat is gonna be disastrous Bel: "Russia was forced to do so. Its all NATO/US fault!"
Cetero censeo religionem delendam esse
 (November 10, 2022 at 4:10 am)Deesse23 Wrote: Retreat works/is not a fake Bel is right on all three, actually: When your troops are getting ground into powder, retreating IS the smart move. Being forced to retreat is also known as 'losing a war'. NATO aid to Ukraine certainly bears at least some of the 'blame' for Russian reversals. Boru
‘But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods or no gods. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.’ - Thomas Jefferson
80y ago we used to call this "frontbegradigung".
A successful retreat is indeed a kind of success. As soon as victory is not an option anymore, avoiding defeat is what you are left with, at best.
Cetero censeo religionem delendam esse
(November 10, 2022 at 5:48 am)Deesse23 Wrote: 80y ago we used to call this "frontbegradigung". Yup. Better an orderly, rear-guarded retreat than a full-blown rout. Boru
‘But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods or no gods. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.’ - Thomas Jefferson
 (November 10, 2022 at 5:48 am)Deesse23 Wrote: 80y ago we used to call this "frontbegradigung". "The general who advances without coveting fame and retreats without fearing disgrace, whose only thought is to protect his country and do good service for his sovereign, is the jewel of the kingdom." - Master Sun  RE: Russia and Ukraine
November 10, 2022 at 9:42 am
(This post was last modified: November 10, 2022 at 9:45 am by Thumpalumpacus.)
(November 9, 2022 at 9:25 pm)LinuxGal Wrote:(November 9, 2022 at 6:57 pm)Thumpalumpac Wrote: A rear-guarded evacuation was probably the best option the Russians had available. Ukrainians report Russians still inside the city. Satellite images show Russian forces constructing new trenchworks east of the Dneipr. Their concern has to be safeguarding their big naval base at Sevastopol. I hadn't realized that -- thanks for the update. I thought they still had a couple of ships there even after the drone attack. RE: Russia and Ukraine
November 10, 2022 at 9:50 am
(This post was last modified: November 10, 2022 at 9:56 am by The Grand Nudger.)
They'd never have kept crimea. The occupation of crimea, donetsk, and luhansk was all of a piece. The whole reason they invaded, as in invaded proper, was because ukraine was beating the shit out of their little green men. What we're seeing now is their third attempt.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
(November 10, 2022 at 9:42 am)LinuxGal Wrote:I dont disagree with the notion that it was wise to pull back once you realized you cant stand where you are.(November 10, 2022 at 5:48 am)Deesse23 Wrote: 80y ago we used to call this "frontbegradigung". Yet In face of the original objectives of the whole campaign, the importance to actually hold an area which you claim to have annexed, and that area you cant hold being a key to holding another area you already have annexed a few years back, in light of all this the future still may look bleak.
Cetero censeo religionem delendam esse
(November 10, 2022 at 12:51 pm)Deesse23 Wrote: In face of the original objectives of the whole campaign, the importance to actually hold an area which you claim to have annexed, and that area you cant hold being a key to holding another area you already have annexed a few years back, in light of all this the future still may look bleak. Right, which means that the question then devolves to "will this rear-guard retreat accomplish the usual aim of such operations?" -- to wit, will the forces they've saved be sufficient to halt the advance? I don't know enough about the Russian order of battle to have an informed answer. I know there are two Russian airborne units retreating which may be of decent combat value (or may not!) It may be intended to use them to stanch the flow into Crimea proper (as I would think is the intention) -- or it may only have been intended to rescue them from destruction in the potential pocket. In any event, the HIMARS/MLRS systems now have deeper reach into Russian logistical arrangements, so it may be possible to keep hustling the defeated forces southeast. This certainly implies great danger to Russian forces in Crimea in either event. |
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