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RE: Russia and Ukraine
November 14, 2022 at 3:48 pm
(This post was last modified: November 14, 2022 at 3:50 pm by The Architect Of Fate.)
Quote:OK, half proxy war. The US does want to control what Ukraine does -- as was demonstrated by them choosing the government in the 2014 coup.
No, it doesn't they didn't decide Ukraine's government at any point. By contrast, Russia is trying to do that by annexing Ukraine.
Quote:The US does want to control what happens in Ukraine. It wants to control what it does with its military, and what its government does.
Not it doesn't. Russia by contrast wants to do both thus the invasion.
Quote:The goal here is not to leave Ukraine independent. The goal is to make Ukraine do what the US thinks the US needs.
Nope, it's to keep Ukraine independent which is the opposite of what Russia wants.
Quote:Also the huge number of loans to Ukraine will mean that after the war its economy will largely be controlled by the institutions who loaned the money, which is one of the ways the US controls many foreign governments.
Ukraine will have to pay back its debts. That doesn't mean the US controls its government or the institutions that loaned them the money do. You really do like reaching to back up your nonsense, don't you?
Quote:There already are US military people in Ukraine. If it gets to the point where they are blatantly involved in combat, with video of troops doing the fighting, that's WWIII. Happy WWIII to everyone.
Having advisors on the ground to teach the Ukrainians US weapon systems is both smart and needed and no the handful of US military staff there will never see combat and there will be WW3 you loon. Russia will cry. Ukraine will stay independent and the world will go on.
Quote:In other news, the US and other countries have lifted sanctions on Russian exports of fertilizer. And sales of Russian energy to non-combatant countries continue to grow.
And that will not save Russia's economy on life support.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/christinemc...0c1994a2c8
In real news. Russia is still losing the war and Russian apologists are still making excuses 
"Change was inevitable"
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RE: Russia and Ukraine
November 15, 2022 at 8:03 pm
A pair of Russian missiles land in Poland, killing two people.
Uh oh…
Boru
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RE: Russia and Ukraine
November 15, 2022 at 10:16 pm
If I were Alexander Dugin I would avoid going near any windows...... 
https://www.newsweek.com/putins-brain-tu...ng-1759139
"Change was inevitable"
Nemo sicut deus debet esse!
“No matter what men think, abortion is a fact of life. Women have always had them; they always have and they always will. Are they going to have good ones or bad ones? Will the good ones be reserved for the rich, while the poor women go to quacks?”
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RE: Russia and Ukraine
November 16, 2022 at 3:17 am
(November 15, 2022 at 8:03 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: A pair of Russian missiles land in Poland, killing two people.
Uh oh…
Boru Rule #1 for dictators who want a conflict to remain a local one: Dont, i repeat, DONT .....start killing Poles.
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RE: Russia and Ukraine
November 16, 2022 at 5:48 am
(November 16, 2022 at 3:17 am)Deesse23 Wrote: (November 15, 2022 at 8:03 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: A pair of Russian missiles land in Poland, killing two people.
Uh oh…
Boru Rule #1 for dictators who want a conflict to remain a local one: Dont, i repeat, DONT .....start killing Poles.
I can easily imagine that other NATO members are, at this very moment, frantically trying to dissuade Poland from invoking Article 5.
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RE: Russia and Ukraine
November 16, 2022 at 1:00 pm
Both NATO and Poland are now leaning towards the hypothesis that the missile was an errant Ukrainian SAM, rather than a Russian cruise missile.
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RE: Russia and Ukraine
November 16, 2022 at 1:27 pm
(November 16, 2022 at 1:00 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: Both NATO and Poland are now leaning towards the hypothesis that the missile was an errant Ukrainian SAM, rather than a Russian cruise missile.
Yeah, early reports called them ‘Russian-made missiles’, which I’m sure caused a bit of consternation. Of course, given the amount of captured Russian hardware in Ukrainian hands, it’s perfectly plausible that they were Russian missiles fired by Ukrainians.
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RE: Russia and Ukraine
November 16, 2022 at 2:54 pm
(This post was last modified: November 16, 2022 at 2:55 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Ultimately, a distinction that makes no difference. If russia wasn't lobbing cruise missiles at ukraine, ukraine wouldn't be lobbing air defense missiles at russian cruise missiles. As ever, theres a simple solution to all parties troubles. Russia gets the fuck out of ukraine and quits terror bombing ukranian cities.
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RE: Russia and Ukraine
November 17, 2022 at 2:38 am
(November 16, 2022 at 1:27 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: (November 16, 2022 at 1:00 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: Both NATO and Poland are now leaning towards the hypothesis that the missile was an errant Ukrainian SAM, rather than a Russian cruise missile.
Yeah, early reports called them ‘Russian-made missiles’, which I’m sure caused a bit of consternation. Of course, given the amount of captured Russian hardware in Ukrainian hands, it’s perfectly plausible that they were Russian missiles fired by Ukrainians.
Boru
It need not be captured. Ukraine inherited some S-300s on the dissolution of the USSR, and has also received donor batteries from at least one and perhaps more NATO countries. Indeed, the latter could actually be behind the Poish or NATO statements -- because if they can read the serial number on any piece, they can trace the missile's provenance if it was donated.
Either way, it is entirely possible that the missile was both built in Russia and operated by Ukraine. Zelenskyy needs to tone down his protestations until we have more facts in.
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RE: Russia and Ukraine
November 17, 2022 at 2:38 am
(November 16, 2022 at 2:54 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Ultimately, a distinction that makes no difference. If russia wasn't lobbing cruise missiles at ukraine, ukraine wouldn't be lobbing air defense missiles at russian cruise missiles. As ever, theres a simple solution to all parties troubles. Russia gets the fuck out of ukraine and quits terror bombing ukranian cities.
Right on.
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