Russia and Ukraine

[Angrboda]

Nobody was trying to bring Ukraine into NATO. Jesus Christ you are pathetic.

[The Architect Of Fate]

Here's a bit of history.

Probably Henry Kissinger and John Pilger were about as far apart as two people can be, on the subject of US foreign policy. But both of them warned, over ten years ago, what would happen if the US tried to bring Ukraine into NATO.

People really should have listened to these two.

Yes they did predicted Russia would throw a hissy fit over a sovereign nation  making it's own choices. That's essentially the history of Russian imperialism.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Here's a bit of history.

Probably Henry Kissinger and John Pilger were about as far apart as two people can be, on the subject of US foreign policy. But both of them warned, over ten years ago, what would happen if the US tried to bring Ukraine into NATO.

When did this American initiative to lure Ukraine into NATO happen? Be specific. I want dates, diplomats involved, any memoranda of understanding composed, and so on.

You won't, because you cannot, because -- wait for it -- it never happened.

Russian shill.

[Deesse23]

Sure you can, and that's what we should have done.  Oh well.  We had sleepy joe and milqetoast merrick at the wheel.

In the US Constitution, the separation of the three branches was clearly created having in mind that whoever is part of them does play by the rules, and the rules are: If you are in one of the branches of government you are to compete with the other two. If people decide, and thats what GOP did, to put people in place who clearly put party and self-interest way in front of this principle, you get exactry what you have: Collaboration between SCOTUS judges (majority), the president and the house, all ruled by republicans, by people who put party and self-interest on top of their prio list. And then there is a major part of the electorate who either does not notice or does not care.

There is no law, amendment or whatever that could force the likes of Trump, Tomas (et al.), McConnel (Graham, etc.) to play "fair" and wrestle for influence for the betterment of the US. Likewise, in Weimar Article 48 was used, probably with rather good intentions, to bypass separations between the Reichspräsident and the Reichstag.

[Deesse23]

Here's a bit of history.

Probably Henry Kissinger and John Pilger were about as far apart as two people can be, on the subject of US foreign policy. But both of them warned, over ten years ago, what would happen if the US tried to bring Ukraine into NATO.

When did this American initiative to lure Ukraine into NATO happen? Be specific. I want dates, diplomats involved, any memoranda of understanding composed, and so on.

You won't, because you cannot, because -- wait for it -- it never happened.

Russian shill.

Bel seems to have "forgotten" that the same Kissinger called for a ceasefire in May 2022, and restoration of the pre February 2022 demarcation line, and to put the status of Crimea "up for further discussion". Looks like pretty selective reading comprehension for someone who remembers the name of every single classic and medieval philosopher out there. But hey, maybe its only me and my biases against well known trolls pushing russian narratives.

[The Grand Nudger]

There is no law, amendment or whatever that could force the likes of Trump, Tomas (et al.), McConnel (Graham, etc.) to play "fair" and wrestle for influence for the betterment of the US. Likewise, in Weimar Article 48 was used, probably with rather good intentions, to bypass separations between the Reichspräsident and the Reichstag.

There were all kinds of things us law could have done..and would have done to anyone else, to prevent this.  None of it was inevitable.  None of it is normal.  This ukraine aid bullshit for example is illegal impoundment, as is much of what the mad king is doing right now.

Even if that last election ends up being The last election, it's still worth remembering...and, frankly, those facts will be the first ones the new regime attempts to erase. We will have always been Trumplandia. This will be retroactively declared the right and proper state of affairs, all of it very legal.

[Angrboda]

It's also worth noting that Bel's two prophecies were written in the immediate aftermath of Russia seizing Crimea. Ignoring the context to suggest they were speaking to future events is misleading. Both were addressing the then present.

But who cares enough about what Kissinger and Pilger wrote in 2014 to dig this up now? Russian propagandists.