Russia and Ukraine

[The Grand Nudger]

Putin certainly thinks the war is about being macho, specifically how pussified by westernization the russian people have become. This is his lifeline to the russian far right, who've reached more or less the same conclusion. The problem with the war is that there isn't enough of it, and they're doing it too softly.

[The Architect Of Fate]

So in 2008 there was a summit at which "NATO leaders reaffirmed the decision that Ukraine will become a member." They never made it to full member status, but you'll notice that the NATO web site doesn't say that this plan has been abandoned.

Ever since the dissolution of the Soviet Union, knowledgeable people have warned that aligning Ukraine too closely with the west, against Russia, would provoke conflict.

And yet when Putin launched his invasion, he said he did it to 'denazify' Ukraine.

Not to mention that if NATO on Russia’s borders is “existential threat,” then Russia will attack next Finland & Sweden who recently entered NATO. But there's barely murmur from Russia when Finland & Norway membership brought NATO and all its weapons so threatening to Russia dramatically closer.

Because invasion wasn’t about NATO expansion but about dominating Ukraine. Russian occupational army pursues genocidal policies targeting for arrest, torture & death all who support Ukrainian sovereignty and oppose occupational regime. Further evidence that Putin’s beef with Ukraine is not just about NATO are his demands on Ukraine long went much deeper than foreign policy alliances. He objected and tried to dictate on all matters of purely domestic politics, from decentralization, to language, education, historical memory and more.

Considering Russia is a stone throw away from various NATO countries Russia's contention that Ukraine joining would be some special threat that warranted a full scale invasion rings hallow

[The Architect Of Fate]

Let me know when you're leaving for Ukraine. I'll send you a couple of bucks for bullets. 

https://ildu.com.ua/

Or maybe you just want other people to die.

Wtf are you talking about? Why do you think that I don't want peace? I can assure you that I want Russia to stop bombing Ukraine and killing and raping its people - which means peace.

Bel lives under this weird notion that anyone here wants the war to keep going our position is perfectly summed up in 

[Silver]

[Thumpalumpacus]

And yet when Putin launched his invasion, he said he did it to 'denazify' Ukraine.

Not to mention that if NATO on Russia’s borders is “existential threat,” then Russia will attack next Finland & Sweden who recently entered NATO. But there's barely murmur from Russia when Finland & Norway membership brought NATO and all its weapons so threatening to Russia dramatically closer.

Because invasion wasn’t about NATO expansion but about dominating Ukraine. Russian occupational army pursues genocidal policies targeting for arrest, torture & death all who support Ukrainian sovereignty and oppose occupational regime. Further evidence that Putin’s beef with Ukraine is not just about NATO are his demands on Ukraine long went much deeper than foreign policy alliances. He objected and tried to dictate on all matters of purely domestic politics, from decentralization, to language, education, historical memory and more.

Considering Russia is a stone throw away from various NATO countries Russia's contention that Ukraine joining would be some special threat that warranted a full scale invasion  rings hallow

An apt point. The Baltic states joined NATO in May 2004, bringing NATO to Russia's frontier, yet 21 years later we still haven't attacked Russia.

@Belacqua is simply shilling Russian propaganda.

As for his challenge to pick up a gun and go fight in Ukraine -- 1) I'm my mother's primary caregiver; 2) I'm a disabled 58 yr-old; 3) I and others in this thread have already served our nation in time of war.

So yeah, he can lick my loins. I'd love to see his honorable discharge paperwork.

[The Architect Of Fate]

The Idea you can be a neutral country next to Russia is like saying you can be a pump delicious deer next to a hungry bear Russia's idea of neutral country is a puppet state.

[The Architect Of Fate]

Remember Victoria Nuland gave out cookies to protestors and made some calls Russian simps take out of context so it's all a nefarious plot 

[The Architect Of Fate]

Behold NATO greatest recruitment tool 

[Belacqua]

Perhaps more detail from the NATO page would help to clarify things.

I have added the bold letters here and there.

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Evolution of NATO-Ukraine relations

Dialogue and cooperation started when newly independent Ukraine joined the North Atlantic Cooperation Council (1991) and the Partnership for Peace programme (1994).

Relations were strengthened with the signing of the 1997 Charter on a Distinctive Partnership, and further enhanced in 2009 with the Declaration to Complement the Charter, which reaffirmed the decision by NATO Leaders at the 2008 Bucharest Summit that Ukraine will become a member of NATO.

The 1997 Charter established the NATO-Ukraine Commission as the main body responsible for developing the NATO-Ukraine relationship and for directing cooperative activities. In 2023, the Commission was replaced by the NATO-Ukraine Council, where Allies and Ukraine sit as equals. This change demonstrates the strengthening of political ties and Ukraine’s increasing integration with NATO.

Cooperation has deepened over time and is mutually beneficial. Ukraine has a long track record of active contributions to NATO-led operations and missions.
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Political and practical support to Ukraine

NATO condemns Russia's war of aggression against Ukraine in the strongest possible terms. This aggression gravely undermines Euro-Atlantic and global security, and is a blatant violation of international law. NATO Allies, in concert with relevant resolutions of the UN General Assembly, demand that Russia stop the war immediately, cease its use of force against Ukraine, and completely and unconditionally withdraw all its forces from Ukraine.

The Allies do not and will never recognise Russia's illegal and illegitimate annexations, including of Crimea. Since Russia's illegal annexation of Crimea and the beginning of its aggression in eastern Ukraine in 2014, NATO has reinforced its support for capability development and capacity-building in Ukraine, alongside Allied training of tens of thousands of Ukrainian troops.

Since the NATO Summit in Warsaw in July 2016, NATO's practical support for Ukraine is set out in the Comprehensive Assistance Package (CAP) for Ukraine. At the 2022 Madrid Summit, Allies strengthened the CAP to provide even more support to Ukraine. At the 2023 Vilnius Summit, Allies agreed to further develop the CAP into a multi-year programme of assistance, to help rebuild the Ukrainian security and defence sector and transition Ukraine towards full interoperability with NATO.

At the 2024 Washington Summit, Allies agreed to establish NATO Security Assistance and Training for Ukraine (NSATU) to coordinate the provision of military equipment and training for Ukraine by Allies and partners. They also announced a Pledge of Long-Term Security Assistance for Ukraine, providing a minimum baseline funding of EUR 40 billion within the next year, and sustainable levels of security assistance in the future. In 2024, Allies provided EUR 50 billion to Ukraine, with nearly 60% coming from European Allies and Canada.

NATO stands in unwavering solidarity with the government and people of Ukraine in the heroic defence of their nation, their land and our shared values. The Alliance fully supports Ukraine’s inherent right to self-defence as enshrined in Article 51 of the United Nations Charter.

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Ukraine’s membership aspirations

In response to Ukraine’s aspirations for NATO membership, Allies agreed at the 2008 Bucharest Summit that Ukraine will become a member of NATO. They also agreed that Ukraine’s next step on its way to membership was the Membership Action Plan (MAP), NATO’s programme of political, economic, defence, resource, security and legal reforms for aspirant countries. In 2009, the Annual National Programme was introduced as Ukraine’s key instrument to advance its Euro-Atlantic integration and related reforms.

From 2010 to 2014, Ukraine pursued a non-alignment policy, which it terminated in response to Russia’s aggression. In June 2017, the Ukrainian Parliament adopted legislation reinstating membership in NATO as a strategic foreign and security policy objective. In 2019, a corresponding amendment to Ukraine's Constitution entered into force.

In September 2020, President Volodymyr Zelenskyy approved Ukraine's new National Security Strategy, which provides for the development of the distinctive partnership with NATO with the aim of membership in NATO. In September 2022, following Russia’s illegal attempted annexations of Ukrainian territory, Ukraine reiterated its request for NATO membership.

At the 2024 Washington Summit, building on decisions taken at the 2022 Madrid Summit and 2023 Vilnius Summit, Allies reaffirmed that Ukraine’s future is in NATO and that they will continue to support it on its irreversible path to full Euro-Atlantic integration, including NATO membership. To that end, Allies will continue to support Ukraine’s progress on interoperability, as well as additional democratic and security sector reforms, which NATO Foreign Ministers will continue to assess through the adapted Annual National Programme. In Washington, Allied Leaders reaffirmed that they will be in a position to extend an invitation to Ukraine to join the Alliance when Allies agree and conditions are met.

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To review: here are the plans for joining NATO that were formed before Russia's invasion, quoted from the text hidden above:

Allies agreed at the 2008 Bucharest Summit that Ukraine will become a member of NATO.

In June 2017, the Ukrainian Parliament adopted legislation reinstating membership in NATO as a strategic foreign and security policy objective. In 2019, a corresponding amendment to Ukraine's Constitution entered into force.

In September 2020, President Volodymyr Zelenskyy approved Ukraine's new National Security Strategy, which provides for the development of the distinctive partnership with NATO with the aim of membership in NATO.

So from 2008 there were plans for Ukraine to join NATO. This was put on hold from 2010 to 2014 as Ukraine pursued a non-aligned policy. After the change of government, with strong US influence, membership in NATO again became a "strategic foreign and security policy objective." And the Ukrainian constitution was amended to reflect this. This is before Russia invaded. In 2020 Zelensky approved a strategy which aims at membership.

Understandably, the desire for membership increased after Russia invaded. But it's clear according to NATO's web site, membership for Ukraine was a policy goal.

https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_37750.htm

[The Architect Of Fate]

Yet more of the same non evidence and nothing burger in a desperate attempt at NATO bad and  Putin good