Real democracy

[Rev. Rye]

You mean...fuck all polls? Here, hold this bottle for me while I get the fuel.

Or shit like naming a flavor of Mountain Dew “Hitler Did Nothing Wrong.” And, yes, that actually happened.

[vulcanlogician]

They did quite a bit more than that - most were better at civil admin and agronomy than they were at winning wars - just ask the long list of dead and deposed kings. 

Sure. Genghis Khan was a pretty good secretary. A master of shorthand.

[The Grand Nudger]

He decreed the creation the first international postal service. I don't know if that makes him more difficult to understand as a historical figure responsible for the deaths of 40million, or much easier.

[TaraJo]

Democracy has problems, but so does any type of government system. Democracy is probably the best option, but we need to know and understand the shortcomings of the system if we expect it to continue working.

Unfortunately, to do that, we need a well educated, well informed public and we've got a large portion of the population that is hostile towards education and any news that doesn't parrot their conspiracy theories is dismissed as "fake news." Therefore, nothing will change any time soon.

[Neo-Scholastic]

I, for one, welcome our machine overlords. <sarcasm>

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Democracy has problems, but so does any type of government system.  Democracy is probably the best option, but we need to know and understand the shortcomings of the system if we expect it to continue working.

Unfortunately, to do that, we need a well educated, well informed public and we've got a large portion of the population that is hostile towards education and any news that doesn't parrot their conspiracy theories is dismissed as "fake news."  Therefore, nothing will change any time soon.

Reminds of a remark by Churchill (I think) that democracy is the worst form of government except for all the other ones that have been tried.

Boru

[h4ym4n]

Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting what’s for dinner.

[Pat Mustard]

Democracy has two meanings: the real one, and the socially accepted one. Voting every 4 years, and expecting a group of “representatives” to decide what is best for you is not democracy. At best it is a “guided democracy”, meaning no real changes on policies occur regardless of who you choose as president. Biden himself said it.

So in order to achieve real democracy, we need to start at a municipal level. I think that humans by nature feel more attached to what immediate surrounds them and small groups. For example, in a tribe of 50 people, everyone matters and so does their opinion.

So I propose to use the internet and create a voting system where everyone in a community (hundreds to thousands of people) can vote regularly for every decision taken, from small to big. For example, from voting for the best design of a bus stop, to the development of new infrastructure. Access to information such as budget and how it is spent should also be displayed.

Now we also need to take decisions at a national level which require technical knowledge, such as economy. For this I propose two options: every community creates a group of certified experts who arrive to an agreement, and then a national decision is taken. Or every certified expert around the nation has the right to vote.

People who lack the required knowledge can’t vote as it might me detrimental to the country. Nonetheless, the effort to educate everyone through information available on the internet, open classes, conferences, etc., should also be available.

I think this system should be implemented somewhere in a developed country, such as Finalnd or Sweden, in a small community (hundreds to thousands of people) as an experiment, and see how it goes. I would expect fierce resistance from groups of power.

On the first bolded bit who decides on the "experts", because the only possible end result is a bunch of people beholden to the ruling class being allowed to run for office, i.e. a kakistocracy.

On the second boldest bit, much as I'd like to see you removed from the body politc, we both know in your system the worst people won't be removed from the electorate but the best, because they'll be the most likely to go against the kakistocracy. People like you, on the other hand, will bow down and worship the first dictator that comes along.

[TaraJo]

Democracy has problems, but so does any type of government system.  Democracy is probably the best option, but we need to know and understand the shortcomings of the system if we expect it to continue working.

Unfortunately, to do that, we need a well educated, well informed public and we've got a large portion of the population that is hostile towards education and any news that doesn't parrot their conspiracy theories is dismissed as "fake news."  Therefore, nothing will change any time soon.

Reminds of a remark by Churchill (I think) that democracy is the worst form of government except for all the other ones that have been tried.

Boru

It's a pretty accurate statement.

I think some amount of government is necessary and even inevitable.  If no government exists, people with big guns will make their own rules for everyone else and become the new government.  

And, yeah, it's not like democracy is perfect.  It's better, but there are still flaws.  Unfortunately, America is unwilling to make the changes to fix those flaws because the ones making the rules rose to power under the existing rules and eliminating those rules could remove them from power.

Doesn't help that so much power and money is in the hands of just a small number of people.  If you're rich, you can do whatever you want.  Billion dollar corporations invest ridiculous amounts of money into the campaigns on both sides to make sure they win no matter what happens with the elections.  They own all the media outlets and therefore limit what messages they'll allow to spread (it's a form of mass mind control, if you ask me).  

Our unwillingness to accept and fix the problems with democracy in America could easily threaten the entire democratic system.  I don't doubt if Trump had won re-election, he would already be trying to change the law so that he can continue being president.  I also don't doubt that if he wins in 2024, he'll try to insist that he can run again in 2028 because the constitution only forbids him from two consecutive terms and he never had that; and the Republicans, who are spineless when it's a question of standing up to Trump, will give him the green light to do it.  

And, yeah, republicans are going to stay in power.  Dems are too weak and spineless to fight for anything and between their ridiculous lies and "voter fraud" laws, they're going to disenfranchise millions of people who otherwise would be voting.  And since the people who won't be voting would otherwise vote for democrats, the republicans will stay in power for a very long time.  

So, yeah, American democracy is fucked up.  I just hope it doesn't end soon.

[vulcanlogician]

Democracy has problems, but so does any type of government system.  Democracy is probably the best option, but we need to know and understand the shortcomings of the system if we expect it to continue working.

Unfortunately, to do that, we need a well educated, well informed public and we've got a large portion of the population that is hostile towards education and any news that doesn't parrot their conspiracy theories is dismissed as "fake news."  Therefore, nothing will change any time soon.

Reminds of a remark by Churchill (I think) that democracy is the worst form of government except for all the other ones that have been tried.

Boru

Yup. I've always loved that quote. I agree with Churchill's (and TaraJo's) assessment. Democracy is the best we got. But it isn't perfect. We need to be aware of its shortcomings.

I think one of the things that helps democracy function is education. This goes back to Plato who thought rulers should be educated to rule. By that logic, when the general public is the "ruler" so to speak... the general public needs robust education.

I also think socialism is important to democracy. The public shouldn't make decisions out of desperation. Good decision making is made with a cool head... not out of fear or anguish. Typically how we've justified an emperor having a comfortable lifestyle. Well... when the general public is the emperor, we need to make sure that the emperor is well-rested, and well cared-for.