Theist with Questions

[Jehanne]

Growing up I was convinced of NDEs; had a number of night terrors about dying and going to Hell.

I've investigated the Pam Reynold's case at length, and the details simply do not match up to the claims. Admittedly I have my biases, and that is only one case, but I would be surprised if that is uncommon.

Pam Reynolds, of course, died 10 years ago, but, if we have spirits, and her alleged experience was truly an OBE with verdicality, then the many thousands of experiments looking for a replication of such would have found at least one repeat occurrence. Most likely there is pure embellishment on the part of Pam and her supporters, an after-the-fact of filling in the blanks.

[Nay_Sayer]

I'm an ex agnostic, turned theist. I'm not a fundamentalist, actually fairly unorthodox. 

My turning point was due to people who have been clinically dead and were resuscitated, as well are recovery of terminally ill that should not have survived but did and most with very few side effects from their injury or illness. 

I'm not here to sway opinions but to hear different beliefs and ask questions. 

I'm always interested in talking to people that have had near death experiences, and especially if they were considered clinically dead.

I have many examples of people being clinically alive then dying. What are your musings about that?

[Angrboda]

I'm an ex agnostic, turned theist. I'm not a fundamentalist, actually fairly unorthodox. 

My turning point was due to people who have been clinically dead and were resuscitated, as well are recovery of terminally ill that should not have survived but did and most with very few side effects from their injury or illness. 

I'm not here to sway opinions but to hear different beliefs and ask questions. 

I'm always interested in talking to people that have had near death experiences, and especially if they were considered clinically dead.

I have many examples of people being clinically alive then dying. What are your musings about that?

I'd settle for a definition of clinically alive.

[Nay_Sayer]

I have many examples of people being clinically alive then dying. What are your musings about that?

I'd settle for a definition of clinically alive.

Not being clinically dead.

Pith aside it was more to point out the OP is swayed to his current belief by Seeing/reading about people being resuscitated from near death but apparently not considering the number of healthy (For edification, Not having any diagnosed health issue) people who have died suddenly and did not come back.

[Angrboda]

I'd settle for a definition of clinically alive.

Not being clinically dead.

Misapplication of the law of the excluded middle. Oddly enough, the first definition of dead that I pull up is, "not alive." I'm sure we could play that game a long time.

Apparently the medical definition is, “An individual who has sustained either (1) irreversible cessation of circulatory and respiratory functions, or (2) irreversible cessation of all functions of the entire brain, including the brain stem, is dead. A determination of death must be made in accordance with accepted medical standards.” Unfortunately, we can maintain a brain's function artificially, in principle, and that person would still be alive.

[Nay_Sayer]

Not being clinically dead.

Misapplication of the law of the excluded middle.  Oddly enough, the first definition of dead that I pull up is, "not alive."  I'm sure we could play that game a long time.

We could but I went back and clarified my statement

[Angrboda]

Misapplication of the law of the excluded middle.  Oddly enough, the first definition of dead that I pull up is, "not alive."  I'm sure we could play that game a long time.

We could but I went back and clarified my statement

No, you simply deferred the problem. The problem being primarily one of defining what it means for something to be alive or dead. It's not a black or white alternative which yields to your attempted clarification.

[Nay_Sayer]

We could but I went back and clarified my statement

No, you simply deferred the problem.  The problem being primarily one of defining what it means for something to be alive or dead.  It's not a black or white alternative which yields to your attempted clarification.

If you're having issues with understanding if something is alive or dead try the 'poking it with a stick method'.

[Angrboda]

No, you simply deferred the problem.  The problem being primarily one of defining what it means for something to be alive or dead.  It's not a black or white alternative which yields to your attempted clarification.

If you're having issues with understanding if something is alive or dead try the 'poking it with a stick method'.

Maybe you shouldn't have used the term "clinically alive" if you had something more colloquial in mind. Might I suggest the Samuel Jackson school of English usage?

[RBP3280]

I'm an ex agnostic, turned theist. I'm not a fundamentalist, actually fairly unorthodox. 

My turning point was due to people who have been clinically dead and were resuscitated, as well are recovery of terminally ill that should not have survived but did and most with very few side effects from their injury or illness. 

I'm not here to sway opinions but to hear different beliefs and ask questions. 

I'm always interested in talking to people that have had near death experiences, and especially if they were considered clinically dead.

Without exception, all aspects of NDEs can be recreated, on demand, under controlled conditions.  Establishing that we, as humans, have an immaterial component, a soul or spirit, that survives the death of our brains and bodies, is falling off a log scientifically.  The test has been one of verdicality, the remote viewing of concealed objects; at least a half dozen scientific studies have looked for this phenomenon, and all have reported negative results.

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That isn't exactly true. When you have a flat line EEG the brain is clinically dead. You can not recreate that without killing the patient.
I will agree that some experiences can be recreated, that does not negate the fact that most are genuine.
The real issue is can we continue to exist outside of our physical body in a spiritual form.