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[Quranic reflection]: hell is a black hole-part III
#61
RE: [Quranic reflection]: hell is a black hole-part III
(April 18, 2022 at 12:22 pm)Klorophyll Wrote:
(April 17, 2022 at 1:26 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Folks who believed the moon was split in two then reassembled.  It's fair to say they didn't know much about space.

Miracles are by definition an interruption of the laws of physics. Muslims believe God split the moon and reassembled it just like any other theist who believes in miracles.

How much one knows about space is irrelevant, whatever physical law that governs space can be interrupted by God anyway.
Tell your man winter, not me, he's the one who thinks that the miracle of hell is a black hole. Next thing you know he'll be telling us that god's throne has a street address.

I know that you believe that..just like any other theist who believes in miracles. That's what's so damned funny to me about what all of you believe, and twice as funny whenever any of you gets to babbling about magic book(s)
and science.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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#62
RE: [Quranic reflection]: hell is a black hole-part III
(April 18, 2022 at 12:22 pm)Klorophyll Wrote:
(April 17, 2022 at 1:23 am)JairCrawford Wrote: How can you guarantee that all other things are equal to make such statements on the sole basis of religion.. how many other factors were neglected ..?

No scholar from Mozambique ever won a Nobel prize. It must be because of christianity, it must be..!  Wacky



And without delay Peter went quickly out of the synagogue (assembly) and went unto the house of Marcellus, where Simon lodged: and much people followed him...And Peter turned unto the people that followed him and said: Ye shall now see a great and marvellous wonder. And Peter seeing a great dog bound with a strong chain, went to him and loosed him, and when he was loosed the dog received a man's voice and said unto Peter: What dost thou bid me to do, thou servant of the unspeakable and living God? Peter said unto him: Go in and say unto Simon in the midst of his company: Peter saith unto thee, Come forth abroad, for thy sake am I come to Rome, thou wicked one and deceiver of simple souls. And immediately the dog ran and entered in, and rushed into the midst of them that were with Simon, and lifted up his forefeet and in a loud voice said: Thou Simon, Peter the servant of Christ who standeth at the door saith unto thee: Come forth abroad, for thy sake am I come to Rome, thou most wicked one and deceiver of simple souls. And when Simon heard it, and beheld the incredible sight, he lost the words wherewith he was deceiving them that stood by, and all of them were amazed. (The Acts of Peter, 9)
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#63
RE: [Quranic reflection]: hell is a black hole-part III
(April 18, 2022 at 12:22 pm)Klorophyll Wrote:
(April 17, 2022 at 1:23 am)JairCrawford Wrote: Long story short… I see no connections at all with black holes.

Nobody does. OP is being non sensical as usual.

(April 17, 2022 at 1:23 am)JairCrawford Wrote: The authors of the Tanakh, New Testament, and the Quran were not even aware of the earth being a sphere, let alone what a black hole was.

Ibn Taymiyyah reported a scholarly consensus (ijma') on the Earth being round. In other words, all major Muslim scholars of his era understood from the Qur'an and the prophet's sayings that the Earth is indeed round.  Ibn Hazm also reported this consensus.

Looks like you don't know what you're talking about.

Oh I could very well be wrong about that. But I’d need to see the specific studies on the consensus of the time. Specifically what does “round” mean? It could mean a sphere, or it could mean a circle. That’s a big difference. I know many modern Christian leaders refer to a verse in the Bible about “the circle of the Earth” as ‘proof’ that biblical writers knew that the earth is a sphere, even though the text blatantly and explicitly says circle, not sphere. So I’d need to see more info on these studies to be convinced.
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#64
RE: [Quranic reflection]: hell is a black hole-part III
(April 18, 2022 at 7:58 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Which mongol atrocities?  The timurid and mughal ones?  probably not..cuz muslim, or some such shit.  I think you should stick to getting one thing wrong at a time.  Is this alt astronomy or alt history time?

Atrocities like "executing masses of conquered people" by farting and facesitting them to death:

https://historycollection.com/the-mongol...ric-facts/

[Image: 38mongols-feasting-atop-captives.-pintrest.jpg]

Then they built skull towers from the skulls of my dead ancestors & yours.

They tortured humanity until people thought it was judgement day. 

They just didn't reach Spain, but they gave Eastern Europeans some hot, deadly farts to the death.

(April 18, 2022 at 9:50 am)Jehanne Wrote:
(April 18, 2022 at 7:39 am)WinterHold Wrote: So you're comparing the occupation of Spain with the Mongol atrocities?
..Score.

The Mongols never made it to Spain.  Al-Andalus was a major hub of Islamic scholarship and did not disappear even with the Reconquista, as Islamic texts were translated into Latin by the Christians.

Over the centuries into the modern era, Islam has become more anti-intellectual, that's why so few Muslims have won the Noble Prize.

The Islamic nation lost its soul after the defeat against the Mongols; they broke its soul.
That's why I adopted the Quran as the only constitution I follow; and defied any other sources written by Sunni/Shiite Muslims. Their sources are twisted and polluted.
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#65
RE: [Quranic reflection]: hell is a black hole-part III
Broke its soul? The Plague during the 14th and 15th centuries killed off between one-third to half-one of the population of Europe, and yet, the medieval universities continued to function. When plague broke out in England in the 17th-century, Isaac Newton left town, went back home, discovered calculus and went back to Cambridge a year to two later only to write the greatest mathematical treatise that the World has ever known, the Principia.
And without delay Peter went quickly out of the synagogue (assembly) and went unto the house of Marcellus, where Simon lodged: and much people followed him...And Peter turned unto the people that followed him and said: Ye shall now see a great and marvellous wonder. And Peter seeing a great dog bound with a strong chain, went to him and loosed him, and when he was loosed the dog received a man's voice and said unto Peter: What dost thou bid me to do, thou servant of the unspeakable and living God? Peter said unto him: Go in and say unto Simon in the midst of his company: Peter saith unto thee, Come forth abroad, for thy sake am I come to Rome, thou wicked one and deceiver of simple souls. And immediately the dog ran and entered in, and rushed into the midst of them that were with Simon, and lifted up his forefeet and in a loud voice said: Thou Simon, Peter the servant of Christ who standeth at the door saith unto thee: Come forth abroad, for thy sake am I come to Rome, thou most wicked one and deceiver of simple souls. And when Simon heard it, and beheld the incredible sight, he lost the words wherewith he was deceiving them that stood by, and all of them were amazed. (The Acts of Peter, 9)
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#66
RE: [Quranic reflection]: hell is a black hole-part III
(April 18, 2022 at 7:37 pm)WinterHold Wrote: Atrocities like "executing masses of conquered people" by farting and facesitting them to death:
Sounds like a good time. I assume there was drinking, a jovial atmosphere. Maybe some distribution of trinkets, trophies, spoils and gifts of ill act done well, too?

Quote:Then they built skull towers from the skulls of my dead ancestors & yours.
So, a tuesday?

Quote:They tortured humanity until people thought it was judgement day. 
They were pretty good at psyops, yeah.  

Quote:The Islamic nation lost its soul after the defeat against the Mongols; they broke its soul.
That's why I adopted the Quran as the only constitution I follow; and defied any other sources written by Sunni/Shiite Muslims. Their sources are twisted and polluted.
Same source and method as magic book.  We've had this conversation too many times for me to take you seriously anymore.  That's something you tell yourself about your beliefs, but it's not actually important to your beliefs that it be true.  

I'm guessing you also wouldn't consider your religion disproven if it turned out that hells weren't black holes, either...huh......?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Reply
#67
RE: [Quranic reflection]: hell is a black hole-part III
(April 18, 2022 at 7:37 pm)WinterHold Wrote:
(April 18, 2022 at 7:58 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Which mongol atrocities?  The timurid and mughal ones?  probably not..cuz muslim, or some such shit.  I think you should stick to getting one thing wrong at a time.  Is this alt astronomy or alt history time?

Atrocities like "executing masses of conquered people" by farting and facesitting them to death:

https://historycollection.com/the-mongol...ric-facts/

[Image: 38mongols-feasting-atop-captives.-pintrest.jpg]

Then they built skull towers from the skulls of my dead ancestors & yours.

They tortured humanity until people thought it was judgement day. 

They just didn't reach Spain, but they gave Eastern Europeans some hot, deadly farts to the death.

(April 18, 2022 at 9:50 am)Jehanne Wrote: The Mongols never made it to Spain.  Al-Andalus was a major hub of Islamic scholarship and did not disappear even with the Reconquista, as Islamic texts were translated into Latin by the Christians.

Over the centuries into the modern era, Islam has become more anti-intellectual, that's why so few Muslims have won the Noble Prize.

The Islamic nation lost its soul after the defeat against the Mongols; they broke its soul.
That's why I adopted the Quran as the only constitution I follow; and defied any other sources written by Sunni/Shiite Muslims. Their sources are twisted and polluted.

So basicly the Mongols operated in the exact same manner as the pre-islamic and islamic caliphate then. Boo-fucking-hoo.

PS, have you a reputable source for what you just asserted?
The great appear great because we are on our knees. Let us rise!
Big James
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#68
RE: [Quranic reflection]: hell is a black hole-part III
(April 18, 2022 at 7:37 pm)WinterHold Wrote:
(April 18, 2022 at 7:58 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Which mongol atrocities?  The timurid and mughal ones?  probably not..cuz muslim, or some such shit.  I think you should stick to getting one thing wrong at a time.  Is this alt astronomy or alt history time?

Atrocities like "executing masses of conquered people" by farting and facesitting them to death:

https://historycollection.com/the-mongol...ric-facts/

[Image: 38mongols-feasting-atop-captives.-pintrest.jpg]

Then they built skull towers from the skulls of my dead ancestors & yours.

They tortured humanity until people thought it was judgement day. 

They just didn't reach Spain, but they gave Eastern Europeans some hot, deadly farts to the death.

(April 18, 2022 at 9:50 am)Jehanne Wrote: The Mongols never made it to Spain.  Al-Andalus was a major hub of Islamic scholarship and did not disappear even with the Reconquista, as Islamic texts were translated into Latin by the Christians.

Over the centuries into the modern era, Islam has become more anti-intellectual, that's why so few Muslims have won the Noble Prize.

The Islamic nation lost its soul after the defeat against the Mongols; they broke its soul.
That's why I adopted the Quran as the only constitution I follow; and defied any other sources written by Sunni/Shiite Muslims. Their sources are twisted and polluted.

No Mongol ever built a skull tower from the skulls of my ancestors. My ancestors’ cousins did that.

Boru
‘Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.’ Ralph Waldo Emerson
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#69
RE: [Quranic reflection]: hell is a black hole-part III
At work.

"KHORN!!"

"Blood for the BLOOD GOD!"

"I feel the warp over taking me. It is a good pain."

Tongue
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#70
RE: [Quranic reflection]: hell is a black hole-part III
(April 18, 2022 at 1:45 pm)JairCrawford Wrote: Oh I could very well be wrong about that. But I’d need to see the specific studies on the consensus of the time. Specifically what does “round” mean? It could mean a sphere, or it could mean a circle. That’s a big difference. I know many modern Christian leaders refer to a verse in the Bible about “the circle of the Earth” as ‘proof’ that biblical writers knew that the earth is a sphere, even though the text blatantly and explicitly says circle, not sphere. So I’d need to see more info on these studies to be convinced.

You can find the original narration of the consensus here : 

https://islamqa.info/en/answers/118698/c...h-is-round

Their main justification is the verse:

“He created the heavens and earth for a true purpose; He wraps the night around the day and the day around the night”

[az-Zumar 39:5]. 

The exegesis goes like this : The equivalent in Arabic of "wrapping around" can't apply to something that is flat, as the verse kind of describes how the Earth appears when looked at from afar, one half of it is roughly covered in sunlight and the remainder in darkness.
Qur'anic revelation is the sole path to ultimate reality. All argumentation and philosophy is an expression of arrogance and an overestimation of human cognitive ability. 

"But believe me, Cleanthes, the most natural feeling that a well-disposed mind will have on this occasion is a longing desire and expectation that God will be pleased to remove or at least to lessen this profound ignorance, by giving mankind some particular revelation, revealing the nature, attributes, and operations of the divine object of our faith." (Hume's Dialogues)


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