Even if theism is a failure, it's still superior to atheism

[The Architect Of Fate]

There is a big difference between simply knowing that one will die one day, and being fully aware of it. Our subconscious is hardwired to function as if death never occurs  - I'll probably have to look up the article where I read that, but for now just take my word for it-. 

Once you dig deeper to find out why these people led fulfilling lives, it's mostly due to luck -most of them probably didn't have some physical or mental disability, and/or were born to a rich family, and/or grew up in a favorable environment. Any advantage in life makes it easy for one to abstract away death and pretend it never happens -well, at least until it does happen. But what about people on the other side of the spectrum ? People who have a serious disadvantage in life, what would give them the inner momentum to move forward, under atheism or naturalism ? 

Take a young woman with a congenital deformity who grew up in a capitalist society -like yours. I am sure she would have dealt with all forms of bullying and discrimination throughout her life, and if these traumatizing events happen very early in her life, they can severely affect her psychological makeup, and leave her vulnerable and directly exposed to the neurosis of thinking about death. If the woman in this example were religious, she can at least take comfort in knowing that an all-powerful being is with her in the face of an unforgiving society, and that He can offer her long lasting rewards for her deeds, however small and insignificant. 

Absent religion, things are much more complicated for the poor woman, she is reduced to an inept element that is trivially easy to replace in a capitalist system, which is characterized by competitiveness and optimal allocation of resources. 

In short, a person with a congenital deformity loses all forms of capitalist competition AND will never be allocated to any useful function at any level of society. So, what kind of consolation does your worldview offer to these people ?


I know that being an experienced simp is something valuable in your culture. Well, not all cultures appreciate simps, you'll be highly revered in the country where I used to live, if you actually never got into a relationship - marriage notwithstanding, of course.

Responses to the bolded bits:

1. Stephen Hawking.

2. Which is why I’ll never live in such a country.

Boru

Edit: ‘simp’ doesn’t apply to me, but it’s adorbs that you think so.

A culture of Incels 

[Rev. Rye]

Not really much of a dilemma. All you have to do is create something that strikes such a chord with other people that they keep talking about it long after you're gone. You don't necessarily need a supreme being to help you do it.

Are you sure about this ? People still talk about Ted Bundy to this day, almost 30 years after his death. I think you misunderstood the OP and, mistakenly, thought that by transcending death I meant being famous among people. Well, no, not at all. People like Ted Bundy or Jeffrey Dahmer are reasonably famous, but I think we can both agree that their deeds don't really transcend space and time.

People talking about you long after your death is definitely not a good metric of how meaningful your life was.

Does literally anyone expect that their deeds will transcend space and time? Even in Becker, while it's been years since I've read him, I don't think the immortality projects he talks about are even supposed to go quite as far as that. Creating something that will leave an impact for generations to come, yeah, but outright transcending space and time?

[The Architect Of Fate]

Yes, I know. But if a particular lie has no negative effect on your life, and can actually alleviate a lot of your worries and anxieties, it's probably a very good idea to endorse the lie

Learning to live reality and finding what you can in it is always better then a lie.

[The Architect Of Fate]

Are you sure about this ? People still talk about Ted Bundy to this day, almost 30 years after his death. I think you misunderstood the OP and, mistakenly, thought that by transcending death I meant being famous among people. Well, no, not at all. People like Ted Bundy or Jeffrey Dahmer are reasonably famous, but I think we can both agree that their deeds don't really transcend space and time.

People talking about you long after your death is definitely not a good metric of how meaningful your life was.

Does literally anyone expect that their deeds will transcend space and time? Even in Becker, while it's been years since I've read him, I don't think the immortality projects he talks about are even supposed to go quite as far as that. Creating something that will leave an impact for generations to come, yeah, but outright transcending space and time?

Indeed why should anyone care about someone's deeds transcending space and time? What a weird thing to want...

[The Grand Nudger]

Incelery - a very unpleasant vegetable.

[R00tKiT]

1. Stephen Hawking.

The guy obviously had nice compensation for his physical disability : an astronomically high IQ, which enables him to have a distinguished scientific career -again, sheer luck. You and I both know most disabled people aren't that lucky. So, again, what about disabled people in general, how can a naturalistic view of the world motivate them ?

2. Which is why I’ll never live in such a country.

That's understandable, all people prefer their native country over the rest. Regardless of that, you should be aware of the different cultural sensitivities whenever you ask someone if they ever "met" a woman.

[The Grand Nudger]

Are you sure about this ? People still talk about Ted Bundy to this day, almost 30 years after his death. I think you misunderstood the OP and, mistakenly, thought that by transcending death I meant being famous among people. Well, no, not at all. People like Ted Bundy or Jeffrey Dahmer are reasonably famous, but I think we can both agree that their deeds don't really transcend space and time.

People talking about you long after your death is definitely not a good metric of how meaningful your life was.

Does literally anyone expect that their deeds will transcend space and time? Even in Becker, while it's been years since I've read him, I don't think the immortality projects he talks about are even supposed to go quite as far as that. Creating something that will leave an impact for generations to come, yeah, but outright transcending space and time?

Yes!  Most people at least hope, one way or another, to achieve any of the many kinds of immortality humans have described and sought. A god gifting it is such a narrow slice of that. This world can outlast me but not withstand me. No prison can hold me, and I'll be getting out of here over the walls or under them. It's not my home, I'm just passing through. I've got pretty low odds for establishing something that lasts to the very end...but every day I wake up and stack more blocks to that effect.

[R00tKiT]

Does literally anyone expect that their deeds will transcend space and time? Even in Becker, while it's been years since I've read him, I don't think the immortality projects he talks about are even supposed to go quite as far as that. Creating something that will leave an impact for generations to come, yeah, but outright transcending space and time?

That was just a rhetorical device, nothing more. Anyway, Becker's book The Denial of Death is really a goldmine, most of the ideas he gleaned from psychology and psychiatry can serve as very strong arguments against atheism.

[The Architect Of Fate]

Does literally anyone expect that their deeds will transcend space and time? Even in Becker, while it's been years since I've read him, I don't think the immortality projects he talks about are even supposed to go quite as far as that. Creating something that will leave an impact for generations to come, yeah, but outright transcending space and time?

Yes!  Most people at least hope, one way or another, to achieve any of the many kinds of immortality humans have described and sought.  A god gifting it is such a narrow slice of that.

I think a god-gifting it cheapens it.

[The Grand Nudger]

-in case Root actually does need people to answer questions any lived experience as a human ought answer.....

I just got autodoors for my chickens. Saves the worst hour of labor...ever. Late at night when you're drunk and early in the morning when you're hung over. So..for many shitty days on end I did that hour of labor so that..one day, I could sell some breeders, and with that cash, buy a machine that saves me the trouble of those shitty days nd that worst hour. Do other people need more than this to go on living? Because I'm pretty goddamned pleased with myself right now. Makes a motherfucker wanna wake up tomorrow and buy a new pink bow!