[Serious] For former Christians only, why did you leave your faith?

[tjdisc]

Well I was seeking to address the how do I know it's not Satan.  Because Satan doesn't represent what Christ represents.  When I embraced Jesus and His teachings, He was involved with that.  He revealed Himself to me - and continues to more and more each day, like any relationship that grows.  I apologize - I don't mean to sound "preachy" about it.

Without meeting Satan or at least talking to him on the phone, how do you know anything at all about him?

For Satan, I only know what I read about him - mostly from the bible.  I don't have a relationship with him.  I know about Jesus from the bible too, but that knowledge has grown into a personal relationship with Him.  I can't discount that relationship, it's real.  Within context, He said his followers would know His voice.  So the experience and relationship is consistent with what He said.

[Ahriman]

Without meeting Satan or at least talking to him on the phone, how do you know anything at all about him?

For Satan, I only know what I read about him - mostly from the bible.  I don't have a relationship with him.  I know about Jesus from the bible too, but that knowledge has grown into a personal relationship with Him.  I can't discount that relationship, it's real.  Within context, He said his followers would know His voice.  So the experience and relationship is consistent with what He said.

What made you choose Jesus over Satan?

[tjdisc]

For Satan, I only know what I read about him - mostly from the bible.  I don't have a relationship with him.  I know about Jesus from the bible too, but that knowledge has grown into a personal relationship with Him.  I can't discount that relationship, it's real.  Within context, He said his followers would know His voice.  So the experience and relationship is consistent with what He said.

What made you choose Jesus over Satan?

Truth.  Jesus' teachings are truth.  They hit me hard - very impactful.  I am a sort of seeker of truth - so in a way eventually I found Him (or perhaps more accurately He found me).

[Ahriman]

What made you choose Jesus over Satan?

Truth.  Jesus' teachings are truth.  They hit me hard - very impactful.  I am a sort of seeker of truth - so in a way eventually I found Him (or perhaps more accurately He found me).

Well that doesn't mean anything, Satan's words are truth as well, just a different form of truth than Jesus' words.

[tjdisc]

Truth.  Jesus' teachings are truth.  They hit me hard - very impactful.  I am a sort of seeker of truth - so in a way eventually I found Him (or perhaps more accurately He found me).

Well that doesn't mean anything, Satan's words are truth as well, just a different form of truth than Jesus' words.

There are some who follow Satan, that's their choice.

[Fake Messiah]

Truth.  Jesus' teachings are truth.  They hit me hard - very impactful.  I am a sort of seeker of truth - so in a way eventually I found Him (or perhaps more accurately He found me).

I don't see how Jesus' teachings are the truth. For example, in Matthew 6:19-21 Jesus tells people not to store up for material things on earth, which seems ridiculous because followers of Jesus want nice houses and cars as much as anyone else. If they have the money, they accumulate TVs, jewelry, decorative items, gadgets, and a host of other "indispensable" consumer products. Just look at a wish list on a bridal registry for a Christian couple.

Are you any different than that? Do you live in voluntary poverty or do you accumulate things?

Jesus also taught lots of other ridiculous things, like that men should cut their hands off if they masturbate - so have you amputated your hands? Have you plucked your eyes out after looking at women? If not, then how do you find Jesus' teachings to be truthful?

[tjdisc]

Truth.  Jesus' teachings are truth.  They hit me hard - very impactful.  I am a sort of seeker of truth - so in a way eventually I found Him (or perhaps more accurately He found me).

"I don't see how Jesus' teachings are the truth. For example, in Matthew 6:19-21 Jesus tells people not to store up for material things on earth, which seems ridiculous because followers of Jesus want nice houses and cars as much as anyone else. If they have the money, they accumulate TVs, jewelry, decorative items, gadgets, and a host of other "indispensable" consumer products. Just look at a wish list on a bridal registry for a Christian couple."


I can't speak for others nor can I judge them, but in general just because some claim to be Christian and act differently doesn't disprove the truth in the gospel of Christ.



"Are you any different than that? Do you live in voluntary poverty or do you accumulate things?"


I do not live in poverty.  In essence I fall short here.  I am a work in progress.  But I need to live as if I own nothing.  As Paul stated, I need to consider all things as loss except the surpassing greatness of knowing Christ Jesus.  Fortunately, it is not of my experience that He has a list of things that I must do before He will have relationship with me.  He knows me, knows my weaknesses even better than I do.  It is a process of sanctification as I grow in Him.  But I can't dismiss that I fall short right now.


"Jesus also taught lots of other ridiculous things, like that men should cut their hands off if they masturbate - so have you amputated your hands? Have you plucked your eyes out after looking at women? If not, then how do you find Jesus' teachings to be truthful?"


I'm not sure about the cutting off hands part - that seems to be an interpretation not necessarily what He said.  But He did say that it would be better to pluck out your eyes than look at a woman lustfully.  There was an "IF" statement there and what is meant is how important it is.  Don't look at a woman lustfully.  He said you must be perfect.  You don't hear that in many churches.  I am not perfect nor can I be on my own, but He is able - He can make me (or anyone) perfect.  He can make me stand if I could just get out of the way.

[Angrboda]

"I don't see how Jesus' teachings are the truth. For example, in Matthew 6:19-21 Jesus tells people not to store up for material things on earth, which seems ridiculous because followers of Jesus want nice houses and cars as much as anyone else. If they have the money, they accumulate TVs, jewelry, decorative items, gadgets, and a host of other "indispensable" consumer products. Just look at a wish list on a bridal registry for a Christian couple."


I can't speak for others nor can I judge them, but in general just because some claim to be Christian and act differently doesn't disprove the truth in the gospel of Christ.



"Are you any different than that? Do you live in voluntary poverty or do you accumulate things?"


I do not live in poverty.  In essence I fall short here.  I am a work in progress.  But I need to live as if I own nothing.  As Paul stated, I need to consider all things as loss except the surpassing greatness of knowing Christ Jesus.  Fortunately, it is not of my experience that He has a list of things that I must do before He will have relationship with me.  He knows me, knows my weaknesses even better than I do.  It is a process of sanctification as I grow in Him.  But I can't dismiss that I fall short right now.


"Jesus also taught lots of other ridiculous things, like that men should cut their hands off if they masturbate - so have you amputated your hands? Have you plucked your eyes out after looking at women? If not, then how do you find Jesus' teachings to be truthful?"


I'm not sure about the cutting off hands part - that seems to be an interpretation not necessarily what He said.  But He did say that it would be better to pluck out your eyes than look at a woman lustfully.  There was an "IF" statement there and what is meant is how important it is.  Don't look at a woman lustfully.  He said you must be perfect.  You don't hear that in many churches.  I am not perfect nor can I be on my own, but He is able - He can make me (or anyone) perfect.  He can make me stand if I could just get out of the way.

I love how Christians invariably think they know exactly what their god meant. It's just more confirmation that their beliefs are nothing more than wish fulfillment.

[Fake Messiah]

I can't speak for others nor can I judge them, but in general just because some claim to be Christian and act differently doesn't disprove the truth in the gospel of Christ.

Some claim? I just described almost all Christians.

And what disproves the truth in Jesus' teachings is that they are absurd. Like the one I described and it goes even further in absurdity when Jesus promises that food, drink, and clothing will be given to those who “strive first for the kingdom.”

Needless to say that there were many examples of people dying in mass starvation. Take when mass starvation killed more than three million people in Ukraine in the 1930s. Wasn’t God up to this task? Were none of the 3 million people who died seeking his kingdom above all else? And if that were the case -- that no one qualified in the putting-kingdom-first category -- then the standard must be too hard for anyone to attain.

Matthew 6:25-26,

...do not worry about your life, what you will eat or what you will drink, or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothing? Look at the birds of the air; they neither sow nor reap nor gather into barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them.
Therefore do not worry, saying, ‘What will we eat?’ or ‘What will we drink?’ or ‘What will we wear?’ For it is the Gentiles who strive for all these things; and indeed your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things.

It is jarring to see Jesus ridiculing the Gentiles for being concerned about what to eat, drink, and wear.

In Matthew and Mark, we read about the miraculous feeding of 4,000 with just a few loaves and fishes, and all four gospels report that the same deed was also done for 5,000. Such tales make Jesus and God look good, but the experience of Ukraine puts the lie to these gospel fantasies.

[Mister Agenda]

What made you choose Jesus over Satan?

Truth.  Jesus' teachings are truth.  They hit me hard - very impactful.  I am a sort of seeker of truth - so in a way eventually I found Him (or perhaps more accurately He found me).

Are you willing to consider the possibility that how hard something hits you doesn't determine its truth? Or that teachings being true don't make everything said about the person who is supposed to have taught them being true?