Proxy war in Ukraine?

[Jehanne]

To sometimes achieve victory against one enemy means arming their enemy.  Without a doubt, Hitler's war against Stalin helped the West in defeating Hitler.

As with respect to Ukraine, I, as an American, do not wish the United States to pay $1 trillion in what I believe will be a vain attempt to defeat Russia.  Again, an observation of others allowing their desires to shape their beliefs.

Even if that assertion weren't shaky on the grounds of mere reality in ukraine, that would seem like a rough pill to me. Russia obviously doesn't believe it's a vain attempt, eh? Hence the whole proxy war bit of bullshit. But so what if it were? We fail trying to do good rather than resign ourselves to a comfortable evil? What's the point of being able to help, or even try to help, if we won't?

It seems, to me, like the fuck you got mine theory of human civilization..and, in my experience, that's how everyone ends up with nothing.

The United States cannot be a World Police force; we have our own problems. Do not let the war in Ukraine turn into a fiscal black hole, or, worse, the detonator for WW III.

[The Grand Nudger]

We can, and have been - with all the trouble that entails. It sure would be nice if there were more buyin on that, though.

Again, the war in ukraine isn't and isn't even at risk of becoming a fiscal black hole. That's mostly down to ukranians doing a hell of alot with very little. If the price tag is the reason, then problem solved, it's not actually expensive...and it's a bargain for what we're getting, too....proxy war style, right?

We started out wringing our hands over ukranian powerplants and ukranian suffering...but now.... we're really down to the meat of it aren't we? Pure self interest, plain and simple, counted in sweet, sweet USD.

[The Architect Of Fate]

The United States cannot be a World Police force; 

Yes, it can and the alternative is even less viable because we have already seen it. When the US becomes Isolationist shit goes south fast.

we have our own problems.

Really America is being invaded and someone trying to Annex it? 

Do not let the war in Ukraine turn into a fiscal black hole, or, worse, the detonator for WW III.

Considering America's GDP etc the war in Ukraine is a penny you find on the sidewalk and there will never be a WW3 started by the war in Ukraine.

[The Grand Nudger]

Well, technically, if global thermonuclear war was kicked off by the bit in ukraine, on account of how a elderly dictator couldn't stand the hit to his rep.... it's not like the cost in usd would matter at that point, unless you have a stove and needed kindling.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Even if that assertion weren't shaky on the grounds of mere reality in ukraine, that would seem like a rough pill to me.  Russia obviously doesn't believe it's a vain attempt, eh?  Hence the whole proxy war bit of bullshit.  But so what if it were?  We fail trying to do good rather than resign ourselves to a comfortable evil?  What's the point of being able to help, or even try to help, if we won't?

It seems, to me, like the fuck you got mine theory of human civilization..and, in my experience, that's how everyone ends up with nothing.

The United States cannot be a World Police force; we have our own problems.  Do not let the war in Ukraine turn into a fiscal black hole, or, worse, the detonator for WW III.

$18 billion out of a defense budget of nearly $2 trillion is hardly the harbinger of a ‘fiscal black hole’.

Boru

[The Architect Of Fate]

Well, technically, if global thermonuclear war was kicked off by the bit in ukraine, on account of how a elderly dictator couldn't stand the hit to his rep.... it's not like the cost in usd would matter at that point, unless you have a stove and needed kindling.

True global thermonuclear war kind of renders national economics moot

[The Architect Of Fate]

The United States cannot be a World Police force; we have our own problems.  Do not let the war in Ukraine turn into a fiscal black hole, or, worse, the detonator for WW III.

$18 billion out of a defense budget of nearly $2 trillion is hardly the harbinger of a ‘fiscal black hole’.

Boru

I don't think people who make this kind of argument truly grasp what an economic juggernaut the United States is. Though a lot of the blame for that  can be placed at the feet of the media and politicians.

[The Grand Nudger]

The United States cannot be a World Police force; we have our own problems.  Do not let the war in Ukraine turn into a fiscal black hole, or, worse, the detonator for WW III.

$18 billion out of a defense budget of nearly $2 trillion is hardly the harbinger of a ‘fiscal black hole’.

Boru

-to make it even more apparent, that 18b wasn't actually the product of a single years production..either.  We're dumping stockpile, and, alot of the time, gear we don't really intend to use anymore.  We sent them 113s instead of bradleys.......

It's an even smaller amount than it seems like, which is saying something. What it actually amounts to, is 1.8b over a past ten years or so. Now that's not to say that ukraine isn;t screaming for our newer better shit, and..at least when they decide to terror bomb an apartment complex...that gives zelensky a ticket to the candy shop. That's how they ended up with those NASAMS. Thanks Putin! But hey, you know, the russian win is a law of nature, like gravity. Shit always falls down, and only ever on putins enemies....

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

$18 billion out of a defense budget of nearly $2 trillion is hardly the harbinger of a ‘fiscal black hole’.

Boru

I don't think people who make this kind of argument truly grasp what an economic juggernaut the United States is. Though a lot of the blame for that  can be placed at the feet of the media and politicians.

Good point. When you say, ‘Eighteen BILLION dollars!’ in a fevered pitch of nationalist outrage, it sounds like a lot. When you say, ‘9/1000ths of the US defense budget’, not so much.

Boru

[The Architect Of Fate]

$18 billion out of a defense budget of nearly $2 trillion is hardly the harbinger of a ‘fiscal black hole’.

Boru

-to make it even more apparent, that 18b wasn't actually the product of a single years production..either.  We're dumping stockpile, and, alot of the time, gear we don't really intend to use anymore.  We sent them 113s instead of bradleys.......

It's an even smaller amount than it seems like, which is saying something.  What it actually amounts to, is 1.8b over a past ten years or so.

I know technically Ukraine's doing the US a favor by getting rid of stuff that's essentially just sitting around in storage eating up the maintenance budget.