Proxy war in Ukraine?

[The Grand Nudger]

That's the rub. The only arguments that ever actually end in a valid conclusion of "lets let vlad the impotent do what he wants" are the ones that ignore the cost, both in usd, and in ukranian lives. For starters. We could add other lives into the mix once they tidy up with the child snatching in nothereistan...

So, at this point, you gotta ask, even if it were a proxy war...which it manifestly is not...would that be a bad thing...?

[Jehanne]

The United States cannot be a World Police force; we have our own problems.  Do not let the war in Ukraine turn into a fiscal black hole, or, worse, the detonator for WW III.

$18 billion out of a defense budget of nearly $2 trillion is hardly the harbinger of a ‘fiscal black hole’.

Boru

We talked about this in the other thread. It's more than that, much more.

[The Grand Nudger]

It would have to be a whole hell of a lot more..wouldn't it..and even then, so what if it were? You just told us you were concerned about the costs, the roi. Well, you spend money to make money, right? We're getting a hell of alot for any dollar spent, proxy war style, whatever you think that amount may be. Seems like fantastic business, if that's what we're concerned with.

[The Architect Of Fate]

We talked about this in the other thread. It's more than that, much more.

We did and you didn't make a convincing case and even if you had it doesn't change the fact Ukraine will not be a serious economic issue for the US.

[The Architect Of Fate]

That's the rub.  The only arguments that ever actually end in a valid conclusion of "lets let vlad the impotent do what he wants" are the ones that ignore the cost, both in usd, and in ukranian lives.  For starters.  We could add other lives into the mix once they tidy up with the child snatching in nothereistan...

So, at this point, you gotta ask, even if it were a proxy war...which it manifestly is not...would that be a bad thing...?

Considering the Alternative the answer is no it would not be.

[Jehanne]

It would have to be a whole hell of a lot more..wouldn't it..and even then, so what if it were? You just told us you were concerned about the costs, the roi. Well, you spend money to make money, right? We're getting a hell of alot for any dollar spent, proxy war style, whatever you think that amount may be. Seems like fantastic business, if that's what we're concerned with.

What? Funding a losing war and increasing human suffering while risking a global thermonuclear war?? Even assuming $18 billion for the military industrial complex plus another $30 billion or so for non-military sectors, whose counting? Sounds like a pyramid scheme to me! And, so, yes, defense contractors stand to make a LOT of money!

In the end, Ukraine will lose, badly and will be completely dominated by Russia at the cost of many hundreds of thousands of human lives. Money well spent? Of course!

[The Grand Nudger]

Proxy war, remember? It doesn't matter if ukraine loses, or how many ukranians die - only if we benefit in the exchange, which we do - and alot.

The trouble is that you can't pick a lane. When confronted with the humanitarian good of us support in this conflict, it's bad for business. When confronted with the actual return on this business, it's a humanitarian disaster. The obvious staring you right in the face, either way. That this is a humanitarian disaster that the us can help with, and benefit greatly from helping with, at the same time. Why did you think we waded in at the fourth quarter? There's no win here for russia, just some hopeful version of a less humiliating defeat. There's no loss here for the us, just the containment of two, count em two, geopolitical rivals..at a fraction of the cost we spend for those same aims.

Now, obviously, I think we find ourselves here because far too much of the world, russia included, apparently, has been huffing fsb paint. Thing is, that fsb paint isn't supposed to make sense, which is why it doesn't. It's supposed to be nonsense, because it supports a post truth "depoliticized" worldview with intersectionality far beyond just putin and his merry band of looters in russia, lol.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

$18 billion out of a defense budget of nearly $2 trillion is hardly the harbinger of a ‘fiscal black hole’.

Boru

We talked about this in the other thread.  It's more than that, much more.

Source? (Actual source, not just a link to the other thread, please.)

Boru

[The Architect Of Fate]

What? Funding a losing war and increasing human suffering while risking a global thermonuclear war?? Even assuming $18 billion for the military industrial complex plus another $30 billion or so for non-military sectors, whose counting? Sounds like a pyramid scheme to me! And, so, yes, defense contractors stand to make a LOT of money!

In the end, Ukraine will lose, badly and will be completely dominated by Russia at the cost of many hundreds of thousands of human lives. Money well spent? Of course!

1. It's not a losing war 

2. Those people will already suffer under Russian domination at least with the war they have a good chance of remaining free.

3. There won't any thermonuclear war

4. Your point about money has already been rendered moot really.

5. Ukraine isn't going to lose period and Russia will dominate nothing and the cost will be more than worth it on both counts. You can't put a price on freedom.

[The Grand Nudger]

Or, you can, and were buying it cheap, for someone other than ourselves.