Natural family planning

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Keating’s group - Catholic Answers - operates with the permission and the blessing of his local diocese, as does the website. This would seem to make it approved by the Church, even though it isn’t run by the Church. But no matter - you can find the same answer from official Church sources, as evidenced by your earlier post.

In any case, I never claimed it was optional, I said it wasn’t the only method for Catholics to obtain absolution. And it isn’t.

Boru

Unless any of their articles have an imprimatur, nihil obstat (some probably do), then, no, it's not "official" Church teaching, and even then, the Bishop or his reviewer does not share in the ex cathedra Magisterium of the Church, which lies solely with the Pope, the Vicar of Christ, and those bishops who are in communion with him.  Point is that sacramental confession is never, ever something that Catholic can choose not to have; in this respect, it is the only form of absolution for a Catholic, unless "moral or physical impossibility" prevents that individual from receiving the Sacrament.

Bold mine and proves my point. I never said non-sacramental confession was an option or a choice, so I’m not sure why you keep grinding on that. I’ll try it more simply:

Q: How are my sins forgiven?

A: Via visiting a priest, confessing those sins, and receiving absolution.

Q: Is there any other way?

A: Yes - if you absolutely, positively cannot get to a confessional, you can ask God directly to forgive your sins. While priestly intercession is preferred, the Church recognizes that it is not possible in every case.

Boru

Edit: I also never said that Keating’s views were ‘official’ Church teaching (so it’d be great if you wouldn’t misquote me), but if his views are in lockstep with those teachings, what difference does it make?

[Jehanne]

Q: Is there any other way?

A: Yes - if you absolutely, positively cannot get to a confessional, you can ask God directly to forgive your sins. While priestly intercession is preferred, the Church recognizes that it is not possible in every case.

I would personally classify the above answer as being theologice erronea, that is, erroneous against the Faith. Again, from the Catechism of the Catholic Church (emphasis mine):

1453 The contrition called "imperfect" (or "attrition") is also a gift of God, a prompting of the Holy Spirit. It is born of the consideration of sin's ugliness or the fear of eternal damnation and the other penalties threatening the sinner (contrition of fear). Such a stirring of conscience can initiate an interior process which, under the prompting of grace, will be brought to completion by sacramental absolution. By itself however, imperfect contrition cannot obtain the forgiveness of grave sins, but it disposes one to obtain forgiveness in the sacrament of Penance.

And, so, per Church teaching, simply "ask(ing) God directly to forgive your sins" may not be sufficient. The paragraph prior outlines the Church's vuews:

1452 When it arises from a love by which God is loved above all else, contrition is called "perfect" (contrition of charity). Such contrition remits venial sins; it also obtains forgiveness of mortal sins if it includes the firm resolution to have recourse to sacramental confession as soon as possible.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Taking sex advice from a celibate man is like taking writing lessons from the illiterate.

If you think any of them are celibate then I have a burial shroud with Cesare Borgia's face on it dating to the First Century to sell you.

We sometimes assume something for the sake of an argument in order to make a point. That's what I was doing here.

[LinuxGal]

If you think any of them are celibate then I have a burial shroud with Cesare Borgia's face on it dating to the First Century to sell you.

We sometimes assume something for the sake of an argument in order to make a point. That's what I was doing here.

And sometimes I have a piece of snark that needs somewhere to land.  ;-)

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Q: Is there any other way?

A: Yes - if you absolutely, positively cannot get to a confessional, you can ask God directly to forgive your sins. While priestly intercession is preferred, the Church recognizes that it is not possible in every case.

I would personally classify the above answer as being theologice erronea, that is, erroneous against the Faith.  Again, from the Catechism of the Catholic Church (emphasis mine):

1453 The contrition called "imperfect" (or "attrition") is also a gift of God, a prompting of the Holy Spirit. It is born of the consideration of sin's ugliness or the fear of eternal damnation and the other penalties threatening the sinner (contrition of fear). Such a stirring of conscience can initiate an interior process which, under the prompting of grace, will be brought to completion by sacramental absolution. By itself however, imperfect contrition cannot obtain the forgiveness of grave sins, but it disposes one to obtain forgiveness in the sacrament of Penance.

And, so, per Church teaching, simply "ask(ing) God directly to forgive your sins" may not be sufficient.  The paragraph prior outlines the Church's vuews:

1452 When it arises from a love by which God is loved above all else, contrition is called "perfect" (contrition of charity). Such contrition remits venial sins; it also obtains forgiveness of mortal sins if it includes the firm resolution to have recourse to sacramental confession as soon as possible.

Regarding your bolds:

-Contrition and confession are not remotely the same thing. Even a sacramental confession won’t result in absolution if the penitent isn’t sufficiently contrite.

-One can have that ‘firm resolution’ and STILL not make it to a formal confession.

If you could understand the things you’re posting, this would go a lot quicker.

Boru

[Jehanne]

I would personally classify the above answer as being theologice erronea, that is, erroneous against the Faith.  Again, from the Catechism of the Catholic Church (emphasis mine):


And, so, per Church teaching, simply "ask(ing) God directly to forgive your sins" may not be sufficient.  The paragraph prior outlines the Church's vuews:

Regarding your bolds:

-Contrition and confession are not remotely the same thing. Even a sacramental confession won’t result in absolution if the penitent isn’t sufficiently contrite.

-One can have that ‘firm resolution’ and STILL not make it to a formal confession.

If you could understand the things you’re posting, this would go a lot quicker.

Boru

Well, I was (and, still am, technically, under Roman Catholic Canon Law) a Confirmed Catholic, in having received the Sacrament of Confirmation from an ordained Catholic priest in the Roman Rite, who is in full communion with the Archbishop of Dubuque, who is also in full communion with Pope Francis, the Vicar of God. And, so, I have no idea how you or anyone else can claim that I do not "understand" that which I am posting, when I am just simply citing from Magisterial documents?

Have you ever been a penitent in Sacramental confession? I underwent the Sacrament dozens of times, and so, I do understand what is going on. I could return to Catholicism at any time simply by confessing to a Catholic priest and abjuring atheism.

[Angrboda]

I was impertinent once. And I do my best to be pertinent.

[Jehanne]

I was impertinent once. And I do my best to be pertinent.

Yeah, it was a typo.

[Jehanne]

As I posted before, the wonderful thing about Catholicism is that there is understanding and forgiveness, something that I think that many atheists lack.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Regarding your bolds:

-Contrition and confession are not remotely the same thing. Even a sacramental confession won’t result in absolution if the penitent isn’t sufficiently contrite.

-One can have that ‘firm resolution’ and STILL not make it to a formal confession.

If you could understand the things you’re posting, this would go a lot quicker.

Boru

Well, I was (and, still am, technically, under Roman Catholic Canon Law) a Confirmed Catholic, in having received the Sacrament of Confirmation from an ordained Catholic priest in the Roman Rite, who is in full communion with the Archbishop of Dubuque, who is also in full communion with Pope Francis, the Vicar of God.  And, so, I have no idea how you or anyone else can claim that I do not "understand" that which I am posting, when I am just simply citing from Magisterial documents?

Have you ever been a penitent in Sacramental confession?  I underwent the Sacrament dozens of times, and so, I do understand what is going on.  I could return to Catholicism at any time simply by confessing to a Catholic priest and abjuring atheism.

Well, don’t feel special. I was baptized, confirmed, have been to more Mass more often than most people have had hot dinners, have confessed, attended Catholic school for eight horrifying years (and Sunday school just as often) and was (briefly) an altar boy.

I say you don’t understand because EVERYTHING you have posted on this topic says it is possible (not preferred, not optional, just possible) to be absolved of sins - in the most extreme of circumstances - without the formal sacrament of Confession.

This is what I’ve been saying all along, yet you post things that go hand-in-glove with what I’m saying as if I’m wrong.

Boru