Is Islam A Death Cult?

[The Grand Nudger]

Still hoping for the return of islams golden age, eh? Crushed by professional soldiers, whose contracts have all long since expired. I think the problem you have is in believing that jihadis have a lock on fighting for a cause. They don't - they just have a lock on fighting for a particularly shitty cause. In our experience in the middle east, the best way to get them to fuck off was to give them money.

[Leonardo17]

“We may therefore conclude that there is neither jihad nor martyrdom outside the realm of truth, that martyrdom applies only when it is preceded by jihad, that jihad is an inclusive struggle for the cause of the truth, that a mujahid dies the death of a martyr even though he does not fall on the battlefield. He dies as a martyr even though he is not killed, on the condition that he stays loyal to the divine truth and stands ready to fight for the truth and to defend it at all costs, even at the cost of his own life. He is a mujahid while he lives, and a martyr if he dies or is killed for it.”

You can read that and see virtue. But try and read it as a infidel. IT implies that anyone claiming Jihad is claiming truth. It's right there in the first sentence. So anything after, death from martyrdom is in service to truth/jihad. It's not that slippery a slope to suicide bombers. AkA: A death Cult. "He dies a martyr even though he is not killed" implying some Devine armor that is nonsense. And if he dies? Well he didn't believe enough in the truth. The Armor didn't work for him. "He is mujahid while he lives, and a martyr if he dies or is killed for it." So he's a struggler and striver while he lives (that's what Mujahid means) and he's elevated to a saint hood (that's what martyr means) if he dies.

Yah no emphasis on death in this cult at all. Pfft.

- Absolutely. This is why I believe that we should read these texts as adults, without any indoctrination at a very young age. We’ve had this debate with Grand Nudger. An easy way to avoid this type of mistake is to approach these texts with the intention of uncovering their spiritual value only. If you seek worldliness in them you’ll end up doing all sorts of nonsense and you will end up harming yourself and others. And this is a problem in all major religions. And this is why everybody hates religion. But I am telling you that this is really not what these texts are saying. I am currently reading (listening to) “The Living Wisdom of the Tao” by Mr. Wayne Dyer. You should check it out sometime. And if you want to learn anything from other scriptures as well, this will give you an idea on “how” to read these scriptures.
 
If you want to see some “Mujahiddin” (according to my understanding) Here are some of them:

[Leonardo17]

Not really. I was talking about the more ordinary people. Not intellectuals. In sociology they refer to this as “The demystification of the world”. And I think it happened mostly in the beginning of the 20th century.
 
So I’m talking about a change in paradigm. I think you are understanding.
 
There is a good source on the issue of martyrdom:
It says:
“We may therefore conclude that there is neither jihad nor martyrdom outside the realm of truth, that martyrdom applies only when it is preceded by jihad, that jihad is an inclusive struggle for the cause of the truth, that a mujahid dies the death of a martyr even though he does not fall on the battlefield. He dies as a martyr even though he is not killed, on the condition that he stays loyal to the divine truth and stands ready to fight for the truth and to defend it at all costs, even at the cost of his own life. He is a mujahid while he lives, and a martyr if he dies or is killed for it.”
 
https://www.al-islam.org/al-serat/vol-12...rdom-islam

You can conclude whatever you like, but mere reality stands in the way of that conclusion.  I'm all for contemporary abrahamics finding whatever way they can to reject the ridiculous shit their magic books contend while still feeling faithful - ofc.  Still, I think it's a fucking tragedy if the best islamic academics you can grasp for come up with some risible self serving shit like that.  

As for the opq, I think every religion with a heavy emphasis on afterlives is never more than one purity purge or bout of performative piety away from being a death cult.  They're the incubators for death cults.  So, is islam a death cult? I guess it depends on what day it is.  Was it a really tough monday?  Dial the death cult clock closer to midnight.  Hope for a good tuesday.

I will refer you again to “The living Wisdom of the Tao” by Mr Wayne Dyer.
 
It’s the same thing for Konfucyus or the Dao-de-Jing. İf you just pick it and read it it’s just some nonsense + some old-style dictatorial philosophy (that’s how I saw it some 20 years ago).
 
But if you are a spiritual person (like me). And if you are seeking spiritual meaning in them, then you can find these spiritual teachings and learn some stuff.
 
Why are you comparing me with those complete maniacs and fanatics. They are just mad people. Like Anti-Abortionists in the US. They cannot even use their left- logical side of the brain so how can you expect them to use the right- emotional / creative side of their brain without doing any mistake.
 
I will stay firm on this. Religion is not a regressive phenomenon. It’s supposed to take you further in life. To help you see things beyond the real of pure reason. Because of this, illogical person are able to tap into it and sell their twisted ideologies as religion. That’s how I would describe it

[Leonardo17]

Many religions are death cults.

Billions spend their entire lives thinking about and preparing for an afterlife which, likely, does not exist.

….And you live only once. But the good side is that you can decide to open your eyes if you are in that situation. And religion itself can be your guide if you know where to look

[Leonardo17]

In the Quran and hadith, martyrs are first and foremost those who have died in jihad, “fighting in the path of God,” those who have perished violently in battle.

Certainly, death in battle is not the only way to achieve martyrdom in Islam. Those who die unjustly or whose lives are truncated by some act of God are martyrs as well. Someone who is killed for their money, someone who drowns, someone who dies building a mosque or in a structural collapse, a woman who dies in childbirth, the victims of a plague, someone who is killed defending their family, someone who is killed for speaking truth to an unjust ruler, who dies in prison or who stands alone for truth in corrupted times; even (according to one hadith) someone who falls in love and represses their desire with fatal consequences—all these are martyrs.

Source: (https://tinyurl.com/3xtv3b39)

In the article he goes on to take a very erudite and western interpretation of the Quran and the meaning of Duty.

"What if Muslims restored this idea of ‘bearing witness’ to the word martyrdom? What if we thought of martyrdom as bearing witness by being willing to die in the name of that God Who tells us that saving one life is like saving all of humanity, that standing up to injustice is the highest act of faith, that feeding the stranger and the orphan, and sheltering the wayfarer are the solemn duties of every individual? The Quran (41:33) tells us, “What better word is there than calling out to God, doing a good deed and saying, Indeed I am one of those who submits to God.”"

It's always a good idea to go over definitions:
What's a death cult?

Do you mean a religion/cult that encourages members to go to battle when some leader decides to go to battle, because a neighboring country has resources, is not part of the islamic faith, or maybe they want to settle a justice related issue outside of the courthouse?
And at the same time, the religion/cult tells the followers not to worry about dying bc the god will give them benefits in the afterlife (people will remember him as a martyr, which is a badge of honor)?

"What if Muslims restored this idea of ‘bearing witness’ to the word martyrdom?

Bearing witness to a word? What does that even mean?

There is a more in debt way of looking to these issues. This way of looking exists. But its superficial. Or at least it’s not of benefit to me. SO I don’t see things that way.

2) To me it means that you are willing to be just and truthful. That you don’t simply bow down to anyone simply because he / she / they seem to be more powerful than you. Again: this is a spiritual principle that is present in many real religious teachings

[Leonardo17]

In the Quran and hadith, martyrs are first and foremost those who have died in jihad, “fighting in the path of God,” those who have perished violently in battle.

Certainly, death in battle is not the only way to achieve martyrdom in Islam. Those who die unjustly or whose lives are truncated by some act of God are martyrs as well. Someone who is killed for their money, someone who drowns, someone who dies building a mosque or in a structural collapse, a woman who dies in childbirth, the victims of a plague, someone who is killed defending their family, someone who is killed for speaking truth to an unjust ruler, who dies in prison or who stands alone for truth in corrupted times; even (according to one hadith) someone who falls in love and represses their desire with fatal consequences—all these are martyrs.

Source: (https://tinyurl.com/3xtv3b39)

In the article he goes on to take a very erudite and western interpretation of the Quran and the meaning of Duty.

"What if Muslims restored this idea of ‘bearing witness’ to the word martyrdom? What if we thought of martyrdom as bearing witness by being willing to die in the name of that God Who tells us that saving one life is like saving all of humanity, that standing up to injustice is the highest act of faith, that feeding the stranger and the orphan, and sheltering the wayfarer are the solemn duties of every individual? The Quran (41:33) tells us, “What better word is there than calling out to God, doing a good deed and saying, Indeed I am one of those who submits to God.”"

Dying for the cause of God is the highest honour a Muslim can get.
The question is: what ranks up as a death in "God's cause"?

Martyrdom = death in battle for God, death while sacrificing for God.


So if God despises your act (like causing the death of innocents -even innocent non-believers-, causing corruption on the land...etcetera)  you can't claim it is death for God. God might throw you in hell instead for the sin you caused.

BTW, all countries claim they have the true "meaning of martyrdom". I know lots of Americans who threw themselves in the crematoria of Iraq and Afghanistan to be "martyrs for the USA".

I don’t agree with that thought. İf it is so, How about a child who is fighting Leukemia? Many of them are fighting more than the soldiers in Ukraine? So how can this be sacred?
 
As I said. This idea goes back to the Greek. İt’s called “eu teleuein” (to end one’s life well). It’s a social phenomenon that means you are giving up your life for the benefit of society as a whole. So it’s a military / social principle and the Koran seems to support that principle. That’s all. (those guys you are referring to are simply schizophrenic – That’s how I see it)

[Leonardo17]

No you don't, you don't know of a single one, lol.  Murricans aren't interested in martyring ourselves.  Another failed tq.

Interested in cash + benefits of being in the army you mean?
Mercenaries in other words ?

That's a "Thank you" gift most civilized societies make to their soldiers. I see it as a good thing

[Leonardo17]

When do you declare unilateral victory over your vanquished foes in these forums?

It's all electrons jiggling on wires, and the occasional fiber optic connection to any "friend" or "foe", around here. What do you consider as "vanquished", and who are your "foes"?

These are good questions. Ask those questions whenever you study scriptures. That’s how I do things

[Leonardo17]

I wish I had me some of that mercenary money.

War economy institutions and employees are destined to fail in front of an army fighting for a "cause".
Money is finite unlike "an idea"; compare early Muslims that fought for the idea of God to the "Roman soldiers" or "Persian soldiers" who were fighting for money alone.

Money is finite and institutions that promise it will stop giving it once the contract is over. That's the catch.

BTW don't think that Islamist terrorists are out of the war economy circle: they too fight for cash.

The Roman army started to collapse when it started hiring German mercenaries in return for money. Machiavelli is also very critical of mercenary troops. Since you can’t really rely on volunteers to go and die on the battlefield, conscription seems to be the best method because it teaches you a lot when you are a young individual.
 
And reminder: I’m an advocate of peace. There are no two democratic nations who went to war with each other up to this day. So war fare is murder. No to War / Peace V

[Leonardo17]

Still hoping for the return of islams golden age, eh?  Crushed by professional soldiers, whose contracts have all long since expired.  I think the problem you have is in believing that jihadis have a lock on fighting for a cause.  They don't - they just have a lock on fighting for a particularly shitty cause.  In our experience in the middle east, the best way to get them to fuck off was to give them money.

- Our "Golden Age" if it ever existed was an era of free trade, philosophy, science, astronomical studies, beautyful works of art / architecture etc. (it coincides with the time of the Crusades). These people could not live in that era. They would be either executed or sent to die on the frontline of the Army of Salahaddin or someone else. As I said. They're simply Psychotic