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Current time: December 21, 2024, 9:15 am
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Mass shooting in the middle school Vladislav Ribnikar in Belgrade
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Quote:I don't understand why the burden of proof would be on the pro-gun side. They are not the ones advocating the use of force. It's the anti-gun people who are advocating the use of force (to forcibly take guns away from people), so obviously they have to at least prove it will result in the desired outcomes (less violent crime).Glecks study is crap and your perspective is delusional.
"Change was inevitable"
Nemo sicut deus debet esse! “No matter what men think, abortion is a fact of life. Women have always had them; they always have and they always will. Are they going to have good ones or bad ones? Will the good ones be reserved for the rich, while the poor women go to quacks?” –SHIRLEY CHISHOLM (May 16, 2023 at 11:07 am)FlatAssembler Wrote:(May 15, 2023 at 11:04 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Imagine that. A world in which almost everybody who pulls a gun on someone else wasn't actually in any danger of losing their life. Like the thief who robs people at gunpoint. I wonder if he thinks he needs to protect himself from his clients, too? Well, I guess we'll have to remove those types of crimes from the explanation for hundreds of thousands of defensive uses, won't we?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
(May 16, 2023 at 11:11 am)FlatAssembler Wrote:(May 16, 2023 at 12:34 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Because you STILL can't be sure that the attacker would have killed the respondent if the latter hadn't had a gun. Also, whether one is being 'attacked' is a very subjective matter. In recent news, people have been shot for ringing the wrong doorbell, approach the wrong car, or pulling into the wrong driveway. In each case, I'm sure the shooter felt they were in imminent danger of being harmed or killed, but the circumstances of those cases argue against it. What’s that got to do with anything? Those were only used as examples to show that Kleck cannot determine after the fact if any particular life was saved by the use of a gun. In other words, it’s all but impossible to know if an assailant would have killed the person responding to Kleck’s question if the respondent hadn’t brandished a firearm. All he’s shown is that people predisposed to point a gun at someone believed that they were in immanent danger of being killed (colour me shocked) - this is why people who routinely carry firearms do so, because they think the world is teeming with people who want to kill them. Boru
‘I can’t be having with this.’ - Esmeralda Weatherwax
(May 16, 2023 at 2:46 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:(May 16, 2023 at 11:11 am)FlatAssembler Wrote: Do you have any evidence that happens hundreds of thousands times per year? But don't you think it is kind of arrogant to think that almost everybody who thinks a gun saved his life is mistaken? I mean, don't they know better than you, since they have actually been in that situation? (May 12, 2023 at 5:45 pm)arewethereyet Wrote: He just has different flavors of nonsense. Kinda like Baskin & Robbins, but with more flavors.
Thief and assassin for hire. Member in good standing of the Rogues Guild.
(May 19, 2023 at 12:13 am)FlatAssembler Wrote:(May 16, 2023 at 2:46 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: What’s that got to do with anything? Those were only used as examples to show that Kleck cannot determine after the fact if any particular life was saved by the use of a gun. In other words, it’s all but impossible to know if an assailant would have killed the person responding to Kleck’s question if the respondent hadn’t brandished a firearm. All he’s shown is that people predisposed to point a gun at someone believed that they were in immanent danger of being killed (colour me shocked) - this is why people who routinely carry firearms do so, because they think the world is teeming with people who want to kill them. It isn't a case of them being mistaken, it's a case of skewing the sample.. Look at Kleck's sample (not the sample size, but who he questioned): he drastically over-represented not just men, but the oldest male in each household with a gun. These are people predisposed to think they need firearms to preserve their lives, so naturally they're more likely to think that whenever they waved a gun in someone's face, their life was in danger. No, they don't know better than me - they can't possibly. The only way to know for certain sure that they would have lost their life if they didn't use a gun would be to see into the future. No matter how much they believed they were about to be killed by an assailant (or a dog or the clerk who short changed them), there's simply no way for them - or Kleck or you or me - to know. Boru
‘I can’t be having with this.’ - Esmeralda Weatherwax
BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:Look at Kleck's sample (not the sample size, but who he questioned): he drastically over-represented not just men, but the oldest male in each household with a gun.You can argue that leads to a 30% overestimate, but you can not claim that leads to a 90% overestimate (which would be necessary for guns to kill more people than they save).
Why 30%, you reckon?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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