Woman - Life - Freedom Movement in Iran 2.0

[Leonardo17]

   Iran’s brutal repression of pro secularist and pro-democracy movement in the country has been qualified as “Crimes against humanity” by the United Nations:
 
https://www.yahoo.com/news/u-n-irans-rep...35473.html
 
   Personally I think that after the incorporation of this crime in the Rome Statute by the ICC in in 1998, the term has become a little too vague. Previously it was only used on Nazi officers during the Nuremberg trials in 1948. So today I am a part of those who believe that this term should be used in the case of Genocide only.
 
   Yet the newer definition of a Crime against Humanity” goes like this:
 
Crimes against humanity consist of various acts—murder, extermination, enslavement, torture, forcible transfers of populations, imprisonment, rape, persecution, enforced disappearance, and apartheid, among others—when, according to the ICC , those are “committed as part of a widespread or systematic attack directed against any civilian population.”
 
https://www.britannica.com/topic/crime-against-humanity
 
- So these are all checks. All of the above is being done by the IRI. And personally I would also make a legal accusation of “Degradation of moral and spiritual values”. I think somebody should add a statute like that in the Statute of Rome as well.

[The Grand Nudger]

You think that it should only be used for genocide, but at the same time think that it should be expanded to include the degradation of spiritual values, whatever the fuck that is and those are?

Can you even degrade those from the outside..or is it always an inside job? As in, who's doing the degrading, if not the holder?

[Leonardo17]

You think that it should only be used for genocide, but at the same time think that it should be expanded to include the degradation of spiritual values, whatever the fuck that is and those are?

Can you even degrade those from the outside..or is it always an inside job?  As in, who's doing the degrading, if not the holder?

   No, I somehow understand “Crime against Humanity” as something that has to be at least as big as the Holocaust. Like the using of ideology, propaganda and many physical resources (like trains that could carry troops and ammunition) for the liquidation of human beings. So there is an action that completely dehumanizes human beings: Nazis believed that all “Non-Aryans” were non-humans and they even forged some fake science to back this theory. They even carried out fake scientific experiments on Jews as if they were guinea pigs or something. They even the rests of their cremated bodies to fertilize agricultural lands etc. So when the allies and Russians discovered these concentration camps like Auschwitz, they had to invent a new legal term for what had been done. That term was “Crime against humanity”.
 
   My “Degradation of Spiritual and Moral Values” accusation does not have a statute in international law. I think there should be some sort of legal basis in the UN Charter so that when the Taliban does all of these irrational things “in the name of religion” I can take them to court for this and ask for some reparations (if and when they are unable to demonstrate, that what they are doing has some concrete explanation that has to present within whatever religious scripture they are claiming to be following )

[The Grand Nudger]

It would be a hell of a thing if we had to wait until The Holocaust to say or do anything about what lead up to it.

The taliban would take you to court for the degradation of spiritual and moral values, and they'd have the better legalistic case my guy...but at least you both believe that your silly religion should have some purchase in international law......

[Leonardo17]

I meant indemnities / damages (Sorry for my limited usage of the English language ). I think I am entitled to ask for indemnities when me and a whole bunch of people see the positive in it and use it in a way that supports us and supports the rest of society and some other people travesties it to serve their own interest.
 
My legal basis for that is very simple. “Where is the justification for this behavior of yours?” and if they cannot show concrete references. Than they owe me indemnities.
 
If you look at it: Many things happened in the first half of the 20th century than did not exist yet. Like the issue of racism for instance. One quote I could make is from the book written by Hitler himself. He says that the reason why North-America is doing better than South America in economic terms was than in north America is that the higher race did not mix up with the lower race. And just like the Taliban has his twisted religion today, Hitler-like people had their twisted science to that (like skull measurements, eyebrow shapes, angle of the nose etc…) and this is an insult to all of us because real science shows that there are no different genes for different races. Besides as human beings we are all entitled to a soul. Whether you see it as electrons in the brain or as a deeper phenomenon taking human beings and reducing them to objects (like a pack of sheep or stray dogs that had to be eliminated) that’s an insult to each and every one of us, therefore it is a crime against humanity.
 
  So if we are talking Nazis it’s a check. They did this.
 
But I am talking about the older definition here. That’s where I stand.
 
The newer definition is not that different. Anyway, Political Islamists around the world cannot take me anywhere. I see them as ordinary criminals the UN sees them as people who committed crimes against humanity. So the only place where they can win would be an alternate reality

[The Grand Nudger]

-but alot people see the positives in nazism and use it in a way that supports them and the rest of their society?

[Leonardo17]

-but alot people see the positives in nazism and use it in a way that supports them and the rest of their society?

Yes. You know I know what you mean.
 
I was watching CNN a few minutes ago and here is what I found:
 
https://edition.cnn.com/2024/03/08/middl...index.html
 
73% of Israelis are opposed to the delivery of humanitarian aid to the Gaza strip. That 3/4th of an entire “civilized” nation.
 
1) I don’t think this is normal
 
2) Yes: I think the world would be better place if there was no religion: Atheists do want another group of atheist to starve to death. Religious people do that.
 
This being said: On a personal level, I am still critical of these ego-centered religious approaches because I believe that at the beginning all religions have started as teachings and guidelines for individual improvement. So that’s my only argument here.
 
My view is that some of us are getting better while the other group is diving into deeper levels of insanity. Because of that I see it as my duty to remind everyone that those who are crossing a new limit of the extreme in their “religious” approach are actually people who are doing something that is defined in the Quran as “cruelty toward your own self”.
 
As I said before: I believe that this debate has to happen between theists all over the world. Since the percentage of atheists in the world is only 7 % (and only about 30 % in America), I think that the remaining part must begin to learn how to do things without leaning toward total insanity

To me there is a “righteous path” (there is one in every religion), there is a middle path: that’s where most theists are, their approach is more dogmatic, more ritualistic and more repetitive. These are still not bad people, but as in the example above, they are easily manipulated (because their approach is less participative and more mechanical in nature), finally there is the “wrong path”. At that level people become continuously harmful to themselves and to the rest of the world.

 
I believe that this third category of religious people should not exist anymore 

[The Grand Nudger]

...sure, I know what you mean, and because I know what you mean I known that you're wrong, from the bottom up.

.......?

You cling to islamist shit because that's the way you were raised, even as you criticize islamist shit.....

[Leonardo17]

...sure, I know what you mean, and because I know what you mean I known that you're wrong, from the bottom up.

.......?

You cling to islamist shit because that's the way you were raised, even as you criticize islamist shit.....

   There isn’t just one way of looking at Religious stuff. There is a way of looking at it that is absolutely primitive and ultimately harmful in our ever more globalizing world. Look at Modi’s India for instance:
 
https://www.yahoo.com/news/india-announc...43827.html
 
   In A Course of Miracles it says “Use these teaching as toys, and they will have the effect of toys” (use this as a true spiritual teaching, and there will be more benefits). And I believe we have entered an era of change in spiritual approaches. What Modi is doing is an approach of the past. He is using religion as an ego-centered identity system, scapegoating the Muslims and undermining India’s secular system (in a bid to gain even more votes from his populist basis).
 
   My approach is that an individualized and more goal-oriented approach to most religious teachings in the world can result in genuine spiritual growth and help us as individuals and even help humanity as a whole. Check out this nun who is still remaining in Haiti despite everything:
 
CNN
 
But there is no one size fits all approach (meaning nobody has a monopoly on spiritual teachings) and there is no mandatory approach either (meaning that if you are not interested, it’s OK to not be interested).
 
+ In our generation, we all grew up with a level of dislike toward typical religious teachings. And that’s OK too.
 
In the Rastafari religion (a Jamaica based religion that combines Old Testament teachings with Ethiopian Animist traditions – The religion of Bob Marley-), the name they give to God is “Jah”. The Christian God of the white man is actually the devil. And when they say “I and I” it means the Truth in all of us.
 
That’s very interesting. I do not smoke any Ganja to be close to God. But the idea here is fine. In the hands of the Ego what is a practical spiritual teaching in the beginning does turn into a robotized realization of rituals with fear-based repressive and forbidding and absolutely scary ideas that are used to subdue individual liberties and autonomy in a very old-fashioned way so that religious “leaders” aren’t even leading anyone just pretending to still believe in these old fashioned ideologies. Yet the truth of “Jah” is also real. And Jah is supporting us in our goals of more freedom and more harmony with the world around us.

You might want to check-out this movie on movie platforms in your region:

One Love Movie (Bob Marley)

    So having reserves toward organized religion is normal. I have reserves against organized religion too. There are stuff that I feel like “I’m not ready to do that yet”. Not because I have a problem with faith but because what people who know everything better than anyone among us have turned faith into.

[The Grand Nudger]

Sounds like you're just negotiating, to me.